Here's the thing about climbing - take two rides with the same mileage - say 100 miles and same elevation gain say 3000'. Are the rides the exact same? Well no. One ride can be tougher than the other. The Conejo ride also has alot of climbing and is on par with the Cool Breeze but most of the Cool Breeze's elevation is gained in the middle 60 miles. The front and back 20 is flat, flat, flat. There are a couple of tough hills- the one through Summerland comes to mind, but you and Brandy are stronger climbers than I I can do the climbs just slow. I'm much faster through the flats and descents. So basically you guys will beat me up hill but I'll catch you on the down.