attention stokers: question here

[mimitabby]

Hi guys, I am the stoker on the end of a burley rock and roll. I have no brakes, I cannot shift, I cannot steer. Sometimes i can't even see what's in front of us, because you know who in front of me; who isn't a big guy he's still taller and bigger than I am.

Yesterday we rode 54 miles around Lake Washington; on mostly roads with cars. True, most people stayed home yesterday because it was cool and breezy and grey, but there were enough cars to keep me on my toes.

So anyway; back to stoking. Sometimes the best of "captains" will neglect to tell you things like "I am not going to turn right onto the street, I am going to go up onto the sidewalk" or "I'm going to stop pedalling here"
or, he's going to come to a very slow stop at an intersection because he's hoping the light is going to turn.
All of these things; miscommunication or lack of communication are stressful to the stoker. In the first example, i didn't know he was going to get up on the sidewalk and MY reaction forced him onto the street (even more scary!!)
the other two examples just give me lots of adrenalin rushes and tend to wear me out.
another time, something scared me (a car doing a slow stop at the stop sign to our right?) and my movement away from the car forced the bike to move where my husband didn't want to go.

Does this stuff happen to others of you? do you find Tandem riding MORE stressful than regular?

What I like about tandeming is that i can "keep up" with my husband and as a team we can ride with the "big boys" We also get so many smiles from people in cars, on foot and on other bikes, that we find ourselves smiling so much more t han we do on our singles.

Thanks everyone; i'd love to hear other stokers weigh in.
mimi

[Veronica]

I don't find being on the tandem more stressful. Thom and I are pretty in sync. But we rode the tandem only for 18 months before getting singles.

V.

[SheFly]

Communication on the tandem is key. As a stoker, any small change by the captain will affect the stoker, which will, in turn, affect the captain. We have been riding tandems for almost 10 years, and have learned when we need to communicate - hold (stop pedaling), bumps, stopping, going right, everything is important.

This is more pronounced when you are riding tandem in the woods . We started our tandem adventures on the singletrack, so that may be how come we are so in synch now that we have transferred to the road.

I will admit to rides where swearing and crying have ensued, and I think we hold the record amongst our tandeming cohorts for the furthest distance a tandem has been thrown .

I LOVE riding the tandem, and don't find it any more stressful than normal, but would if our communication wasn't dialed in....

SheFly

[sydney_b]

I had to laugh when I read these. I recall reading a cautionary note in a 'how to canoe' book about couples taking up the hobby together.

[SadieKate]

We both find it more stressful but we also enjoy it too much to let that get in the way.

Bubba says he feels the pressure of being responsible for me, that whatever he does impacts me and, being the guy he is, would go the extra step to keep me safe.

We've only fallen once on the tandem. Came around a steep and blind corner on the uphill end of a bike path bridge onto a huge patch of sand where they'd removed the cement for repair. No signs, no warning, no nothing. Fortunately, we were going very slowly and he managed to keep the front end under enough control to step off and slow the tandem's fall onto its right side and I landed in the sand. I think the fall hurt him more emotionally than it hurt me physically. He carried some guilt for a while that he was at fault when I was thinking "thank goodness he did what he did."

For my stress level, I just had to learn to ride loose and relaxed, but that doesn't mean we don't do a lot of communication. Since Bubba outweighs me by 75-80 lbs (and 10" taller) every little movement he makes causes a reaction in the back. If he stops pedaling for just a second, the reverse force on my pedals can eject me off the seat. We don't put in a lot of miles on the tandem, but I think the size difference probably made us realize very quickly that communication was extra important.

To make it work for us, Bill talks a lot (which he's does anyway ) and I learned to let go of control issues, relax and go with the flow. I have to trust that he's doing the right thing and make sure I don't let my body react to every little thing. Basically, he talks a lot and I "ride stupid." Works great.

[mimitabby]

10 inches taller than you!

oh, geez, that's a big difference! I remember how bad it hurt the first few
times my husband stopped pedalling without telling me. I've gotten past that; we have improved

thanks so much your comments are excellent.
And yeah, i suppose it IS like riding a canoe together!

[DebW]

Question: Why is it that the larger person usually ends up in front on a tandem? If the smaller person were in front, then the stoker might have a chance of seeing something other than her partner's back. The few times I took a test ride on a tandem, I hated the stoker position. I could probably never be trusting enough to ride a tandem. In a canoe, on the other hand, I got the bow and my larger heavier partner had no choice but to follow where I led. No verbal communication required.

[SadieKate]

Strength and weight balance.

It simply takes more strength at times, especially starting and stopping. When you're standing, you REALLY want the heavier person in the front.

There are tandems with a 'bent front end.

Hmm, in a canoe, isn't the person in back the one who has the most control over turns? Your back seat partner may have just been accomodating whatever you did. I've only used 2 seat kayaks and the person in back was really the one in control.

[mimitabby]

there are also some tandems where the front person is in a recumbent position. They can sit and relax while the power rider in the back does all the work!

lol. or the guy in the back can just push them into traffic!

I agree about the front rider needs to be the stronger one. A tandem
with two people on it weighs well over 300 lbs, when it starts going
it's like a freight train.
I guess part of my problem is I understand the physics of momentum all too well and I know it wouldn't take much to send me flying off the top !

we've fallen twice so far, at fairly low speeds. I managed both times to land on my feet while the captain went down with the ship..

[bcipam]

Off and on for 15 years with different partners I have rode tandem as the stoker. Personally I do feel it's more stressful than individual riding. Some partners were easier to ride with than others - good partners communicate alot, every move, turn, etc. but here's the thing for me with a tandem - speed and that lack of control. Yes I am a control freak and as a stoker - you must give your trust over to the captain. And speed - nothing moves faster than a well-working tandem - going fast, not being to see, no control... to me that's stressful!!!!

[SadieKate]

Heh, so I take it, Mimi and Pam, that you don't want to hear about the time we went airborne at 62 mph over a steel decked bridge?

OK, I'd didn't enjoy it, but it shows that staying relaxed in an unplanned maneuver can save your hiney.

[SheFly]

Great comments!

Airborne at 62 mph??????? Now THERE'S a story that I'd love to hear! The fastest we've been is 58 mph - we can't seem to break the 60 mph barrier.

The scariest moment for me was last year on a fast, steep, windy descent. At about 35 mph, we blew the rear tire . All I could think about was how much it was going to hurt going down at that speed. Miraculously, hubby kept the bike upright, and navigated us to a soft spot where we stopped upright! .

We also took a pretty good digger in our MTB tandem days. I ended up landing on hubby's head pretty hard, and driving him into the ground. His response to me was to ask why I hadn't put out my leg to stop us (I would have broken my leg, btw.....).

Tandeming is so much fun! We are building up a new TT tandem this season to see if we can break our course record!!!

SheFly

[DebW]

Hmm, in a canoe, isn't the person in back the one who has the most control over turns? Your back seat partner may have just been accomodating whatever you did. I've only used 2 seat kayaks and the person in back was really the one in control.

Canoeing flatwater, the rear paddler has most control and the bow paddler can act like a blind stoker. In whitewater, both paddlers are responsible for manuevering, though one or the other may have more leverage in a given situation due to boat position in the current. The stern paddler is accomodating the bow paddler by following their manuevers, but the manuevers need to be synchronized, and the easiest way to do that is for the stern paddler to watch the bow paddler and the bow paddler to watch the water. The stern paddler has a more limited view of the water but a better view of the boat, and can use their heavier weight to control the boat's lean. For tandem whitewater paddling, having the stern person in control involves lots of yelling (so the bow person know where to go) and occassional crossed signals. It's more efficient and elegant to have a team where the bow paddler picks the route.

[mimitabby]

Heh, so I take it, Mimi and Pam, that you don't want to hear about the time we went airborne at 62 mph over a steel decked bridge?

OK, I'd didn't enjoy it, but it shows that staying relaxed in an unplanned maneuver can save your hiney.

yes, I'd love to hear your story.

Sheesh, guys, i thought it was amazing when we got up to 49mph and I didn't have a coronary!

[Grog]

BF and I have been talking about a tandem since we first rode together. He's a much faster rider than me but we're nearly the same size: he's about 2 inches and 20 pounds heavier than I am, and we can use the same bikes (with adjustments).

So I was hoping that we could get a tandem where we could alternate positions. Did anyone ever try that? He's a great rider to draft from and I wouldn't have an issue riding in the back, but I'd also like to see the road sometimes, and to try captaining too.

Also another question: how did you guys who tandem with your life-partner get started? How did it impact your couple?