Quads or Hams

[maggiedatongue]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the group. I found it earlier this week while searching for bike reviews and have been lurking and I love what I see! So today I signed up.

So my first question is this.....what are the primary muscles used when biking, quads or hamstrings? The reason I ask is I recently lowered my seat and now I really feel it in my hamstrings where I used to feel it in my quads and unfortunately my knees. I'd really like to learn proper technique.

Thanks.....have a good day!

[Kathi]

This is from a book called "The Pilates Edge, An Athlete's Guide to Strength and Performance" by Karrie Adamany and Daniel Loigerot

MUSCLES USED IN THE PROPULSIVE PHASE OF THE CYCLING STROKE
"On extension the gluteus maximus, hamstring and quadriceps are used. As well as the erector spinae.
On flexion the hamstrings, rectus abdominis, internal obliques, external obliques, and tranverse abdominis are used."


How much did you lower your saddle? Did you change your saddle position?When you lower or raise a saddle its sometimes necessary to move the saddle forward or backward.

Do you use clipless pedals? I'm having some of the same issues right now as I'm recovering from ACL surgery and have to use platform pedals on my bike. My therapist feels that my hamstrings are not getting strenthened equally to my quads without the use of the clipless pedals so I have to do more pt oriented workouts for the hamstrings.

I had a new saddle put on and its a little to far forward, after yesterdays ride I really felt my hamstrings. I don't know if thats what did it or the extra hamstring work I'm doing.

[VenusdeVelo]

You will definitely engage both muscles, and also the gluteus, or "butt" muscle ;-). Your usage depend on how you ride/pedal also -- as you push down on the stroke you will use your quards, but as you come up on your stroke, you can basically lift up and engage your hammies. This is a good technique to try when your quads are sore or worn out from a tough climb. I used it alot ot let them rest (but of course you need clipless pedals for it). If your knees are sore, then I would have your LBS to some fit checking. Tops of knees can mean saddle height (underextension), backs or sides of knees can mean something different. So it's hard to pinpoint and a fit is always recomended. Basically your knees should not hurt on a ride, if they do get it checked out.

Consider checking out some books on cycling to read up a little on pedal stroke techniques -- there are so many things you can learn about pulling up on your stroke, how to pedal a full circle, making sure to not lift the heel too much, etc. Alternative is to also ride with someone who is a good experienced rider and have them watch your stroke and give pointers.

Best of luck on your new rides!!

[maggiedatongue]

Ladies...thanks for the great responses!

Kathie...I dropped the saddle by about an inch and am not able to move it forward as it is as far as it can go. In all honestly, I think this bike is too big for me. It's a men's bike, 19" frame and I'm 5'9". I bought this bike 2 years ago and am only starting to really take an interest in it now and of course have only recently found this great forum! I find that I am reaching for the handlebars more than I would like to be reaching.

I don't use clipless pedals, but someday I will. The idea has been spinning around in my head, especially after reading many of the posts here.

Interesting about your hamstrings and ACL relationship. I hope your exercises and biking help you to get stronger and heal. I can't help but wonder if this is also a part of my problem with my hamstrings not being as strong as they should as I've been letting my quads and knees do all the work.

VenusdeVelo.....you've tapped into my dreams....someday I hope to grow up and actually have a butt! Perhaps putting many miles on my bike this summer will help!

On the downstroke, I'm using quads but since I lowered my seat I can really feel my hamstrings and may actually be using them more than then quads! I rode to work 4 times this week and could feel the hammies every day. And the knee pain comes at the top so perhaps what I am learning here today is that I am not set up properly on my bike, or it is too big for me. I shall investigate.

[VenusdeVelo]

He he ! I have extra butt to give away so I have to ride my bike to get RID of it !!

[Kathi]

Bike fit is so important, I've heard that tall women can have just as much trouble getting a bike to fit as small women if they need a shorter tt.

It is good your asking questions, the more you know about your needs the better you can communicate your concerns in the LBS.

A one inch drop is a lot. I think the rule of thumb, ( I could be wrong about this) is 1 cm at a time. I made a 4 cm change in the rise of my handlebars and my body complained for about a month afterwards.

I know it sounds like a lot of money but paying a qualified fitter for a refit will save money in the long run.

[VenusdeVelo]

Agree Kathi, I go a cm at a time. Takes longer but there is no better way to really see the effect of the change. And usually that 1-2 cm does the trick.

[RoadRaven]

Kathi, Venus... I go about 1/2 cm at a time... between about 4-6mm on any changes to seat post, stem or seat position...

[Wizzer]

I have to post a reply to this one as it's near and dear to my heart.

There was a study done on 100 olympic level cyclists to show which muscles were used where in a pedal stroke, these are the results: This study was done by the Nautilus Institute.

If you look at your pedal stroke as a clock, between 12 and 3 is where all muscles used are engaged at the same time, these being - Rectus Femoris, Vastii, Gluteus Maximus, Soleus, Gastrocnemius and Hamstrings. This is the power phase of your pedal stroke.

After 6pm most of the work comes from use in your Gastrocnemius, not your Hamstrings, your Hams shut off at about 6:35pm!

Your Hams, Glutes and Neck/Traps get very tight and shortened through cycling, so your Hams would be the #1 thing to stretch after a ride. They need work to help keep them as strong as your quads, leg extensions and squats are good exercises that that help with strength and flexibility.

Hope this helps a little as there is much confusion about such things in the world of cycling today.

Wizzer

[maggiedatongue]

I will start tweaking my seat 1cm at a time. I guess I was being a bit aggressive! I took a few bikes for a test ride this weekend, but being from a small town I didn't get to ride one that actually fits. I tried out a 16" Trek 6700 WSD (no offense to pink lovers, but this really isn't my color) and a men's 17.5 6500. The WSD was too small for the length of my legs and on the men's, the reach to the handlebars was too far. I'll have to visit bike shops when I go out of town on business to try and find the right size. I'd really like to try an 18" 6500 WSD.

Wizzer....very interesting post. I'll confess to having to look up some of the muscles that you mentioned in wikipedia.org. Based on what you are saying, I think I"m on the right track. With time, practice and the information that I've received on this site hopefully soon I will be able to get my seat in the right location and will be firing the correct muscles. My main concern is not to hurt my knees.

Maggie

[Dianyla]

As long as your bicycle frame size is correct, you might want to try this formula:

Bicycle seat height = .883 x inseam

Measure from the top of the saddle to the middle of the bottom bracket (which is the axle hub around which the pedal crank turns). You might want to tweak it in one direction or another, but in general if you start at this number you'll probably be pretty close.

[susanm8048]

When you talk about "inseam", do you mean measuring the distance between crotch and floor eg by standing flat against a wall and putting a ruler or a book etc between your legs and measuring the distance? Or is there a better way?

And also, does this formula take into a account the sole of your cycling shoes?

I have difficulty getting my saddle height right so I am keen to try a new approach.

[Dianyla]

When you talk about "inseam", do you mean measuring the distance between crotch and floor eg by standing flat against a wall and putting a ruler or a book etc between your legs and measuring the distance? Or is there a better way?

And also, does this formula take into a account the sole of your cycling shoes?

Yes, the book against the wall is the best way to measure your own inseam without a special measuring thingy (<-- technical word). I've heard differing reports about whether to measure with shoes or not. My bike fitter measured me with my cycling shoes on, since that's going to be the effective inseam once I'm on the bike.