the wide spectrum of mothering

[Aromig]

Many therapists and the public in general, preach forgiveness for such parents, but would we say this to a woman abused by a spouse? Of course not.

I've never understood why parents (even bad ones) get a pass. Then again, my favorite saying is that my kids are going to blame me when they grow up, I might as well earn it :-)

Laura - I'm so sorry it was so rough this year.
Crankin, the world needs more therapists like you. I fully support removing people from your life if they don't improve it. Life is too short to spend your time working on relationships that make you miserable. Then again, I'm working hard at "forgiving" (or how about not being angry about and letting go of) an abusive person in my past. They're not a part of my life anymore (beyond perhaps having to see them across a room at holidays once or twice a year), but at this point I just need to let them and the anger go and not define myself by past injuries.

[Crankin]

You are not forgetting, though Aromig, and you are forgiving your anger at the person, and then keeping him or her out of your life. Obviously every situation is different. You are so right, life is too short. Personally, I never wanted my kids to blame me, so I tried to raise them like my parents raised me, which was pretty damn well! I "divorced" my aunt 8 years ago, and by doing that I also have no contact with my cousins, their spouses, and their kids. She is an angry, controlling witch, with untreated ADD and I suspect a mood disorder. Her husband died at the young age of 52, and she became even worse after that, and never resolved her grief. My mom was totally the opposite. So, she can control her own adult children, but not me. It is too bad, as this is my only family, except my brother, who lives across the country. But, every time I think about re-establishing contact, I remind myself of her ways.

[Aromig]

Oh, I was totally being tongue in cheek about my kids blaming me anyway so I might as well earn it :-) I'm working very hard on being what I think is a good parent, but also not letting my kids control my whole life and not doing everything for them. I think I will raise the most independent kids if they see a mom with her own life too. I think its all about balance. We are heavily into travel sports, and we see so many parents whose entire life is centered around the kids, their sports, and their school projects. I just don't think that can be healthy for kids to grow up thinking everything centers around them but it seems the norm now.

My kids get so angry when I say 'no, you can't do this because we already have plans' and I hear "that so and so's Mom cancels her plans so they can......" My usual retort is that if this is the worst thing that ever happens to them they'll end up just fine.

Great point Crankin about forgiving is not forgetting. I think society sometimes doesn't get that these aren't the same things.

[Crankin]

I totally raised my kids that way. They knew that DH and I were the team and in the end, we were the bosses. My kids had a lot of freedom, compared to others, but we were strict about some things that others don't care about (write thank you notes, dressing the appropriate way for the setting, working an entry level job). I hated the whole team sports thing, and thankfully my kids stopped that after 6th grade. When the younger one got into bike racing in HS, I took little interest in it until I started riding, which kind of coincided with when he got his license and could drive to races. So, I did go to some races. The parents were not quite as horrible, mostly because the kids on his team came from all different towns. It's also how we got connected up with our former exchange student, who is really like a 3d son. I was the same way with my other son who did band for 8 years. I went to see the performances and picked him up at ungodly hours from competitions and football games, but I was never a "band mom."
Basically DH and I had "plans" and still do, almost every Saturday night of our marriage. That's what my parents did, and so did DH's. We had wonderful teenaged babysitters (who are now in their mid forties ) and my own kids started babysitting themselves at age 11-12.