Pll, I remember that post about the Gore knickers. And I tried on some of their shorts and tights several years ago which seemed to have the same what-where-they-thinking chamois. But they've made significant changes since then. The chamois in the current Oxygen shorts is great. (I just hope they don't change it again and ruin it, though I've got three pairs now just in case.)

I tried on the bib knickers again and I think I am too tall for them. I'm 5'7" -- not that tall but not short either. They're a size M, but there's nothing on the size chart to help you figure out the if you'll be too tall for the bibs or not. Otherwise they fit fine, and I sat on my bike here in my living room and pedaled backwards to get a sense of how they might feel while riding, and the chamois shape and thickness seemed okay. So I'll order the regular non-bib version. I wish I could get them from TE, but at least I can support an LBS that's not too far from here and has a good reputation.

Thanks!!