Would you rather...

[malkin]

Wasn't it from the plague? So many dead and dying that you'd want a garland around your neck to ward off the smell? Surfs off to look this up.

Some biblical scholars say that your Christ (nice guy, by the way. I'm Jewish but not practicing. But I like that whole taking care of the poor, the least of those, he's a cool, radical Jew) anyway there are those who say he would actually have been born in Spring or Summer. But how do you get Romans for example to quit celebrating Saturnalia with wild abandon?

Ya gotta have something else in winter.

For a winter holiday, you can't beat Hanukkah. Start with one little candle and by the end...wow! Especially if you have a crappy little menorah and the candles are too close together you've got some significant fire.

Right now, we have the opposite: an aging fake tree, and every few days another section of lights poops out.

[OakLeaf]

^ yeah ... Am I allowed to say I'm just generally fed up with religion, but the Easter Vigil Mass was always just breathtaking, just like the above except for all in an hour, from total darkness and spare words, to a few candles and chanting, to blazing lights and choral music with instruments.

I miss the ritual. A lot. It's just everything behind it I can't take .....


And ANOTHER thing... Humbug ... If you ask someone what they want for Christmas and they say "nothing," do them the courtesy of taking them seriously. What most people want is for the holiday to just be f***ing OVER without the pressure of either buying something for YOU, or pretending to like your gift. Humbug. If someone is celebrating a religious holiday, that's got nothing to do with the gifting, and one less person to worry about gift exchange is that much more mindfulness to devote to their religious observance.

[Crankin]

I am glad I am not the only one who just waits for the frenzy to be over. For awhile, I got swept up into it, mostly because of work colleagues. I have not done much at the synagogue in the past 5-8 years, as I told my rabbi that my bike is my new religion... that said, I do still celebrate holidays and would never deny who I am. There are certain rituals that I like, too. But, for me, a lot of my participation was social, it just happened to be at services.
This year, I feel no stress at all. The clinic I work at has at least 50% Jewish therapists and the director is Jewish. The admin people are all in a frenzy, but I can ignore their chatter. There's a few minor decorations on the receptionist's desk, as well as a menorah. Unlike my last job, none of my clients have tried to give me gifts, as they are a bit more aware of this stuff. All I know is that I made my last trip to the grocery store yesterday, until next Friday, and G-d forbid I have to go to any type of store in the next week. This kind of inconvenience does sort of irk me, but I am looking forward to a little Chanukah celebration with my son and DIL Sunday, as well as Chinese food on the 24th, and dinner with our friends on Christmas.

[ny biker]

And ANOTHER thing... Humbug ... If you ask someone what they want for Christmas and they say "nothing," do them the courtesy of taking them seriously. What most people want is for the holiday to just be f***ing OVER without the pressure of either buying something for YOU, or pretending to like your gift. Humbug. If someone is celebrating a religious holiday, that's got nothing to do with the gifting, and one less person to worry about gift exchange is that much more mindfulness to devote to their religious observance.

Is this true? Do most people just want it to be f***ing over?

I was raised catholic, but religion has had no meaning for me for decades. I still enjoy Christmas. I like looking for gifts to give people, and I like giving gifts and I hope that people like what I give them. I like receiving gifts (but do not expect anyone to give me anything just because I gave them something). I like that the holiday provides an opportunity to spend time with family and friends. I like the food.

I understand and respect that many people do not celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas. I was actually happy to find several stores at the mall that were not playing Christmas music when I was out shopping the other night. If someone told me they did not want a gift from me, I would respect that.

For me, the basic meaning of the holiday is peace on earth, good will towards people, regardless of their beliefs. It can be hard to remember that through the all stress (most of it due to continued sh*t at my job), but I do try to remember it.

Last night I passed a house with tons of Christmas lights around it, including lights going up and down a very tall tree in the front yard. It has nothing to do with anything in the Bible, but when I see something like that, I think the people who put them up did it to celebrate their joy in the season. Whether I agree with the reason for their joy, I can still appreciate that they want to share it with others.

[Veronica]

Is this true? Do most people just want it to be f***ing over?
For me, the basic meaning of the holiday is peace on earth, good will towards people, regardless of their beliefs. .

I don't know about most people, but I don't. I love the holiday season for the reason listed above. And I am absolutely not religious. I have to admit I was saddened by how this thread became a rant against the holidays, however, folks are entitled to express themselves. As far as I am concerned, all religions are mythology.

I have never worked in a school district that prohibited holiday themed events. Maybe we're just not progressive enough. All of my students seemed to enjoy the school wide festivities and the team discussion question that I started this thread off with. Religion comes up in so many great novels that I teach- Letters From Rifka, Number the Stars, Esperanza Rising, The Ballad of Lucy Whipple and Dragon's Gate immediately come to mind. Those are things my students are required to read. Maybe those novels should be banned from schools as should anything else that mentions religion.

How can you teach tolerance if you don't teach about cultural differences?

I love the Dickens quote where nephew Fred says something about how this is the one time of the year when people seem to treat others as if they were like themselves and not some different race of creatures altogether. I know it's really about class society in England but I extrapolate that sentiment to include all humanity. And it's a feeling I wish we could hold year round.

Veronica

[rebeccaC]

Whether I agree with the reason for their joy, I can still appreciate that they want to share it with others.

+1.....also i search for universal truths in all religions. One of my biggest joys in this life is finding these parallels, finding the common ground we all share regardless of our faiths, traditions, practices. I prefer to focus on the similarities we humans have, instead of trying to find things that divide us.....

i love giving to others and i also do more random acts of kindness this time of year to strangers both with no expectations of something in return.....and my spiritual being is secure enough to not let others affect it in a negative way whether with words or actions.

what I came across yesterday


happy holidays to all who are celebrating them!!!!

[Catrin]

For me, I've always enjoyed Christmas and I do celebrate the religious meaning of it. I don't have any family, I don't enter into the apparent gift buying frenzy that so many do this time of the year - I don't really have anyone to exchange gifts with and haven't for some years. While I love Christmas music, I don't play it until Christmas Eve as I don't want to burn out on it. When I still was still putting up a tree I didn't do it until a couple days before.

There are many different ways that people celebrate the season, and for many different reasons - some religious, some not and it is all good. I appreciate all of the different ways that people observing the season. In a way it is like I am standing outside of things when I watch how those who have families celebrate the holidays. At one time this was depressing, but I've learned how to deal with it over the years. I usually spend the actual day with friends, and I focus on enjoying our time together. Instead of buying gifts, I make a few treats I know they love and won't/can't make for themselves. No stress this way, and I HATE shopping at the best of times but I do love to cook. It works :-)

[Crankin]

Is this true? Do most people just want it to be f***ing over?

I was raised catholic, but religion has had no meaning for me for decades. I still enjoy Christmas. I like looking for gifts to give people, and I like giving gifts and I hope that people like what I give them. I like receiving gifts (but do not expect anyone to give me anything just because I gave them something). I like that the holiday provides an opportunity to spend time with family and friends. I like the food.

I understand and respect that many people do not celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas. I was actually happy to find several stores at the mall that were not playing Christmas music when I was out shopping the other night. If someone told me they did not want a gift from me, I would respect that.

For me, the basic meaning of the holiday is peace on earth, good will towards people, regardless of their beliefs. It can be hard to remember that through the all stress (most of it due to continued sh*t at my job), but I do try to remember it.

Last night I passed a house with tons of Christmas lights around it, including lights going up and down a very tall tree in the front yard. It has nothing to do with anything in the Bible, but when I see something like that, I think the people who put them up did it to celebrate their joy in the season. Whether I agree with the reason for their joy, I can still appreciate that they want to share it with others.

I hope maybe someone out there will understand what and how I feel. What NY said (and this is not directed at you, NY, in any personal way) represents *exactly* what I mean. In fact, thank you, NY, for stating what I could not articulate! People get a good feeling about Christmas. They get to exchange gifts, be with family, and go to parties. The whole country shuts down for a day.

You are right. This is not the meaning of Christmas. Christmas is a religious holiday, that celebrates the birth of Christ. It is impossible for someone who is not Christian to celebrate the "secular" aspects aspect of the holiday, because it is not a secular holiday. Americans, and perhaps in other places, too, mostly celebrate the secular aspects. That doesn't make it right.

Veronica, I am sorry this makes you sad. I taught all of the books you mentioned to my students. But they are about cultural and ethnic issues, as well as religious persecution. They are not promoting the celebration of one over the other. I know you would never intentionally promote one over another, and I respect you as a teacher and a person. This has probably never come up where you teach, because there's probably no non-Christian students, or very few, who just keep their mouths shut. I do live in a very progressive area, but not all of the towns around here have significant religious minority populations. It varies. At least I don't have to explain myself everywhere, as I did in AZ, 25-30 years ago.

I have a feeling that the way I feel is somewhat akin to the differences in perception about what happened in Ferguson between whites and blacks. I am not sure if someone who isn't Christian can understand, and I don't in any way begrudge anyone's celebration. But, it would be nice for others (not necessarily you guys at TE) to get it.

[PamNY]

I've always felt that Christmas is a religious holiday, and if I don't practice the religion, there's not much for me to celebrate. One of my friends called me a "devout agnostic."

When my parents were alive, I spent Christmas with them and enjoyed it. They were religious, and it was an important holiday to them. After they died, I've done only those activities which I feel obligated to do because of friends. At times, the social obligations (mainly parties) have been overwhelming enough that yes, I was glad when it was over.

I try to be very tactful in commenting on what other people do at holidays but sometimes it is hard. One friend (who is not religious) attends religious services at Christmas to hear the music. She regularly complains about the quality, and I have to bite my tongue. My father was a minister so I know how much work goes into the whole thing. Dropping in once a year and offering a negative critique seems rude. As a child, I was annoyed by people who only turned up for the "big" holidays. Obviously I was lacking in Christian charity even then.

Crankin, I think I have some understanding of how you feel. Having said that, a lot of my Jewish friends do all manner of Christmas-y things, and many aren't observant at all. I stick to "happy holidays" this time of year, and try not to make assumptions about what other people might be doing for the holiday, or how they feel about it.

There is a wide range of reactions to holidays, and I have no quarrel with any of them.

[Veronica]

I think Christmas is going down the path that Valentine's Day and All Hallows Eve have already trod, albeit a bit more slowly. Those also began as religious festivals. Early Christian leaders tied the birth of Jesus to already existing pagan festivals. It's more likely he was actually born in September. Yes, many Christians still celebrate Christmas as a Christian holiday, but many people embrace the holiday without the religious aspects.

I'd have no problem with the whole country shutting down for non Christian holidays. I'd love more time off! Bring 'em on.

It's true that majority of our students are Christian. Our district population is mainly black, Hispanic and Filipino. I do have 4 Islamic families this year. For 4 years in a row I had a Hindi family. Awesome kids - a brother and sister who looped with me. I got Christmas cards from the kids every year, but I'm pretty sure they themselves did not celebrate Christmas.

Veronica

[Helene2013]

I don't care much about the whole thing....just that it gives me extra days off. I'm on vacation for 2 weeks, costing me only 4 days (3 personal and 1 overtime done). Good enough for me.

[Crankin]

Just want to say that the inclusiveness of this forum made it feel safe enough to express my opinion, without fear of being flamed!
And Pam, yes, there are plenty of Jewish people who put up a tree, etc., because, I think they are appreciating the fun and secular things about the holiday. But, if they dug a little deeper, they might find some traditions in their own religion that were just as nice. I am not that religious anymore, and even when I participated a lot more, I belonged (and still do) to a very progressive, non-affiliated synagogue. It provided a wonderful setting to teach my kids values, in a non-dogmatic way.

[Trek420]

For a winter holiday, you can't beat Hanukkah. Start with one little candle and by the end...wow! Especially if you have a crappy little menorah and the candles are too close together you've got some significant fire.

Right now, we have the opposite: an aging fake tree, and every few days another section of lights poops out.

Somewhere I read that you don't really know a person until you see how they handle unravelling last years knotted up Christmas tree lights

Tiny condo with a puggle doggie so no real safe place to put a menorah, we have an electric one. While that sounds tacky it's actually quite nice, looks like a series of tea candles.