Trek Silque vs Madone

[ny biker]

(Confused yet?).

Yes.

But at some point I will need to understand this sort of thing. I have no plans to replace my Madone anytime soon, but in the back of my mind, I think when I do I will look into touring bikes. But in order to make any informed decisions, I will need to understand the differences in geometry and why they matter. So far I haven't gone beyond finding out that neither the Surly LHT or Trek's version of a touring bike comes in a women-specific version, and this is a concern for me since the Madone WSD is a far better fit for me than the men's Trek bike that I used to ride.

But as I said, I have no immediate plans to ditch the Madone. I needed a slightly narrower handlebar than the stock version, but otherwise it fits me fine and does what I want a road bike to do. My only caution to Crankin (or others considering a mass-produced carbon frame) is that it is more fragile than an aluminum or steel bike, so you need to be careful about it leaning it on things, turning it over, etc, in order to prevent anything from hitting the frame.

[Crankin]

Murienn, I am not going to do trig to figure this out! I am just not that wonky. I think I have eliminated the Silque. Yes, I have effective top tube and the other measurement (I can't remember what you said and I can't leave this page without losing what I've typed!). I have a very detailed computer printout and drawing from my Guru build. Here's the deal. When I went for the Guru fitting, he kept trying to make it more "relaxed" than my carbon bike, knowing that I would be using that bike for longer, hillier rides. I kept saying, "no, no, no!" until it felt somewhat similar to what I am used to, when I was on the fitting machine. So, the seat tube is appropriately high, while the seat tube on my Kuota is effectively cut down to nothing, to make the bike fit me. Does this make sense? The Kuota is essentially a men's 48 cm that has no seat tube and no head tube. I don't understand all the talk about spacers, etc. All I can say that I am now used to feeling very tight and cramped on my bike, and I like that feeling. However, when I rode the Madone, it has a sloped top tube, and the seat tube was not like my Kuota, more like the Guru. So I felt like I was riding a small bike that felt smooth and not twitchy, like the Kuota. I am used to the Kuota, but I know I can get a bike that feels smooth and is not twitchy. The biggest issue I have with my Guru is the height of my saddle in relation to the seat tube. I know this doesn't explain what I feel, but when I get on my Kuota, I clip in with one foot, push off and go. I am seated and clipped in with both feet in less than a second. With the Guru, I feel like the bike is too big when I try to start. It's like the saddle is too high, but it is not, because when I actually start riding, it's perfect. I have crashed a few times in my driveway because I jabbed myself in the azz with the saddle and my shorts got caught on the Guru. I have to clip in, and consciously push myself what feels like very far *up* and then make sure I am seated, then clip in with the other foot. If there's even an inch of an incline, I can't start gracefully. I am not great at hill starts on the Kuota, but this is very weird when it happens on the Guru. This has something to do with the geometry, and it may be that I am just used to a bike that is small and cramped. I actually like that feeling, it feels safe. My saddle is not too low on either bike.
NY, I am not sure what issues you have had with the carbon on "mass produced" bikes. I have had 2 carbon mass produced bikes and I don't particularly take stellar care of my bikes! I throw my Kuota in the back of my station wagon multiple times in a season and lean my bike up against all kinds of stuff. It's fallen over, and I've had a couple of crashes, too. There are no cracks at all. I had it checked after the crash I had when it was pretty new. I had even more crashes with my Trek 5200, as I was still a fairly new rider when I got it. DH is willing to pay for the more custom Project One, but I am not. The Madone I rode in Portugal was a bottom of the line, and even that felt better than my Kuota. I knew the components were crap and those things all can be changed.

[Crankin]

You know, I think that may be it. It's been pouring out, so I am not going out to the shed to check! I know I am not going crazy, because once, earlier in the spring, I was riding with Hirakukibou, and she saw this happen as I was taking off from a busy intersection. Her comment was, "I see exactly what you mean."
I don't find the dismounting as weird. I think I did at first, though. I do love the smooth feel of the titanium, but the cornering still does not feel the way the Madone did. The Madone felt like a small bike and the Guru doesn't.
DH still wants me to test both. I guess it can't hurt.

[Crankin]

Explain slack head tube and trail, please!
I am sure they had to do stuff to fit the 700c wheels. It makes sense. I have experienced toe overlap on the Guru, while turning very tightly into my uphill driveway. I am conscious of this now, and generally will ride past the driveway and approach from the other direction, as this also gives me some momentum up the hill. It's the only place I've had this. Never had it on the Kuota. My old Trek had 650 wheels and so did the first road bike I had (a Cannonade).

[Crankin]

Oy, this stuff makes my head spin. I would say my Kuota is twitchy; so if that's the same as unresponsive, that's what it is. The trail stuff is a little harder for me to get!
I am definitely looking at 47 cm. that's what I had before and that's what I rode in Portugal. As far as which one, not sure yet, probably the one below the top or right below that.

[Triskeliongirl]

Twitchy usually means too responsive. But the bottom line is the Madonne felt good on you, so that is what you should get. But test ride to be sure it really has the same geometry as the one you road in portugal, since I believe Madonne's come in different 'fits' which equates to different frame geometry even though they are all Madonnes. You mentioned needing short reach levers. I used to ride w ultegra 9spd short reach levers, but when i got my cervelo it had durace 10 and I couldn't reach the brake levers. So, I glued in the shims that came with the ultra 9 short reach levers, and then ordered additional shims from specialized until I got the reach how i like. I think the newer group sets have more adjustability in the brake levers so they can be brought in (at least SRAM do) so ask your LBS about this. My 48cm cervelo RS has 650c wheels so no TCO. Same for my older terrys (actually they have 700c rear, 24" front). I personally will not ride a bike with TCO although I know many do and don't care.

[Crankin]

Hi Trisk!
Yes, I am aware that all of the different Madones have different fits and after more research, I've discovered that basically, all they have for 2015 is the low end bike I rode on my trip and the very high end, which you can customize. Did some comparing of the geometry to my Guru, since I have the stats on that and it's in the ballpark. I think I will go with the Project One build, because I can bring the price down just by not getting electronic shifting. However, as to the short reach brifters, I have experienced the same issue. I've had a couple of mechanicals/crash things where I had to get new levers and as I said, we've resorted to getting them from E Bay or ordering them from the UK, where they still seem to have the R700s Ultegras. The reach to the brakes was not ideal on the bike I rode, but I could comfortably ride in the drops, as the bar was short and shallow. I could shift easily from the drops (I have long fingers), but to brake, I had to have my hands all the way up in the curve of the bar. I will see about shims when doing the build. The last time I had shims, I felt they compromised the braking. According to DH, if I got the Ultegra electronic shifting, the levers are adjustable and recommended for short reach. I just don't think it's worth an extra 3K! I am sticking with Shimano, I just don't want to learn another system. I have no philosophical reason to be against SRAM, just deathly afraid, I'd forever be shifting wrong and something bad would happen. It's all about muscle memory for me, and shifting is the one thing about riding that has always been intuitive for me, so I don't want to change. For me, it's all the reach, not the size of my hands. I wear a medium woman's gloves and when DH and I compared our fingers, they were exactly the same length! I keep thinking of that "man hands" joke from the 70s.
I am not sure if the LBS is open tomorrow, but might go over there if it is. I just came home from a 32 mile ride and that was more important than going to the shop today. This whole thing seems very complicated, and I want to get this right.