E-Bikes thoughts, comments?

[salsabike]

I think that is a very basic and prevalent difference in mindset about the role of bicycles in most of the U.S. vs other countries like the European ones. When I grew up, bicycles were simply transportation, not exercise. And that transportation view has played into the development of bicycle-friendly infrastructure. As long as bicycles are only viewed as a tool for exercise, there will be less support for improving cycling infrastructure.

[I know I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here.]

Actually, I think this is quite relevant and not tangential at all.

[Eden]

Don't get me wrong - I use my bicycle for transportation often (I nearly exclusively bicycle commute), but I still view it as multi-tasking… transport that is exercise. If I couldn't use my bike and was given the choice between a scooter and the bus, I'd take the bus - I can't see why I'd choose a more hazardous, less comfortable means of transport if it didn't have the exercise benefits… OK… well I except I suppose that sometimes trips by bus are unreasonably long when you look at the wait/transfer factors and where exactly you can get to is limited… but still if it were my everyday commute, I'd rather ride my bike in the rain than take the bus, but I'd take the bus over riding a scooter.

I also think there are other basic reasons that a lot of people don't view bicycles the same way here as in Europe - we tend to be way less dense here and many if not most people do not live urban areas where walking and cycling are practical. Suburban areas are not set up to be friendly to much else than car transport - houses far away from shops and workplaces with few ways in or out - few sidewalks, few amenities within reach- you have to be intrepid, dedicated or you just get into your car…

[antimony]

My husband was reading the Interbike news -- he's more of a runner than a cyclist, but he does ride, and he said "look at these e-bikes, if I had one I'd never drive my car to work". He usually takes the bus, but if he has a doctor's appointment or errands to run to/fro, the schedule is often too inflexible and he drives.

I suggested we seriously consider seeing if we could find an e-assist (pedaling required) cargo bike that we both found comfortable, because if we had one of those, I'd never borrow his car to grocery shop unless it was pouring, and I'd never need the car to take (other) bikes to the shop. (For me it's more about a cargo setup than the assist, but I'd probably use the assist occasionally.)

[Sky King]

This one is Extracycle and Bosch, expected retail $5k

My husband was reading the Interbike news -- he's more of a runner than a cyclist, but he does ride, and he said "look at these e-bikes, if I had one I'd never drive my car to work". He usually takes the bus, but if he has a doctor's appointment or errands to run to/fro, the schedule is often too inflexible and he drives.

I suggested we seriously consider seeing if we could find an e-assist (pedaling required) cargo bike that we both found comfortable, because if we had one of those, I'd never borrow his car to grocery shop unless it was pouring, and I'd never need the car to take (other) bikes to the shop. (For me it's more about a cargo setup than the assist, but I'd probably use the assist occasionally.)

[rebeccaC]

I think that is a very basic and prevalent difference in mindset about the role of bicycles in most of the U.S. vs other countries like the European ones. When I grew up, bicycles were simply transportation, not exercise. And that transportation view has played into the development of bicycle-friendly infrastructure. As long as bicycles are only viewed as a tool for exercise, there will be less support for improving cycling infrastructure.



[I know I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here.]

Sometimes we are a little too U.S. centric here.

Pedaled mopeds have been very popular in Europe for the last 60+ years. I had one of the 7 million+ sold VeloSoleX's when I was 10. We had deliveries made to the house with pedaled moped cargo trikes and i still see them on trips back. When I was back not long ago I saw a lot of E-bikes, a very nice folding E-Solex and even Fedex using e cargo trikes in Paris

[shootingstar]

I've seen 2-3 e-bikes used by other employees within our bike storage lock-up at work which holds approx. 130 bikes. It does get entirely full in spring-fall. There is an e-bike store a few blocks from home and the only one it town. They also sell a handful of folding bikes.

No I haven't seen many people riding them around in our city.

I have mixed feelings about e-bikes especially on more narrow paths. Just 2 weeks ago I saw a teen on an ebike, going really fast on a MUP with her dad who was on a regular bike.
My feeling they must stay within a speed limit with that extra boost and not on sidewalks.

[BikeDutchess]

The kind of e-bikes I'm familiar with (which my dad and several other relatives ride) require the rider to pedal before the assist kicks in, and the assist stops when the speed reaches 25 km/hr (15.5 mph). Those are the types of e-bikes I'm supportive of.

[salsabike]

The kind of e-bikes I'm familiar with (which my dad and several other relatives ride) require the rider to pedal before the assist kicks in, and the assist stops when the speed reaches 25 km/hr (15.5 mph). Those are the types of e-bikes I'm supportive of.

Exactly. Until the sensor feels strong pressure from the rider, as in starting up a hill, the bike works as a bike only, without the assist doing anything at all. They are big, heavy bikes--they're not scooters and they can't go superfast. I've seen countless cyclists on MUPs with regular bikes go much faster than e-bikes will ever manage.

[smilingcat]

I was talking with my partner about her 90+ yo mother. Her driver license is ready to expire and she knows California will not give her a renewal even with complete test. She's still sharp as a tack and all that but...

So instead of completely losing her mobility with a loss of a car, why not an ELF or other three wheel e-bike? I have no problem with that at all. My problem with e-bike is similar to what others have said, bunch of yahoos who think they can ride it like a rice-burner/cafe racer/crotch rocket or what ever other names you want to use.

Then there is my mother who is in her 80s. My sister just informed me that her license is due for rewal this month. See if I can talk her into an ELF and give up her Lexus. She drives less than 4,000 miles a year. I wish they, organic transit, would target advertise to those who are ready to lose their license. Maybe they can get through the rigid thinking of the elderly and try something meaningful.

STOP advertising about health benefit and instead talk about benefit of mobility without a car!!

Maybe I'll go bother Organic Transit about it.

And here I never thought about being a proponent of ELF. I thought they looked hedious and use other negative adjectives. I'm more of the rice burner type...

[OakLeaf]

I guess I have a problem with someone who can't get a driver's license being allowed to operate any vehicle in traffic. Sure on a bike/trike the balance shifts more toward endangering herself vs more likely to endanger others in a car. But still.




.... (and tangentially, I know we've had this conversation before, but just try one thing. Go up to someone with a Buell or a BMW sportbike and call it a rice burner, wait for their reaction, then tell me whether the term is racist or not ... )

[Crankin]

I was thinking the same. I'm all for trikes, but not mixing in with cars, if the driver is impaired enough to not be driving a car.
My dad was driving right up until the week he went into the hospital, at age 89. The week before, he had driven himself down to a restaurant at the beach that sold Boston style lobster rolls... he had to take a special driving test a couple of years ago, in CA, but he passed. I doubt he would have passed the next one. And, I know he could not have managed a trike.

[ridebikeme]

Like some of you folks, I too, have mixed feelings. I will say that when I bought the shop that I have, the previous owner had some in stock. I chose not to continue that trend, as bikes were heavy, expensive and for rural areas simply not practical. But over the years, I'm sure they have become much better and cured some of the previous issues. But at least at this time, I don't see them becoming a part of the shop... who knows, maybe that will change down the line.

[smilingcat]

I guess I have a problem with someone who can't get a driver's license being allowed to operate any vehicle in traffic. Sure on a bike/trike the balance shifts more toward endangering herself vs more likely to endanger others in a car. But still.

.... (and tangentially, I know we've had this conversation before, but just try one thing. Go up to someone with a Buell or a BMW sportbike and call it a rice burner, wait for their reaction, then tell me whether the term is racist or not ... )

I should have qualified by saying that if they still have the faculty to drive safely. What my partner and her mother have noticed is that California is now erring on safety first. So even though you may pass the full on driver exam, the elderly are being flunked and losing their license. At least, this is what I am being told by my partner and her mother. Her mother lives in a retirement community. And everyone of them who have gone for driver license renewal has come back with loss of license.

My thinking too is that ELF can only go so fast, so the reaction time needed could be lot slower than a car...Less demand on the driver.

As for my comment on rice burner, I did also say Cafe Racer or is that term too old? Yes I'm sure BNW Burrell (isn't it owned by Harley now?) or Aprillia or any other Euro bikes might want to give me a black eye for calling it a rice burner.

And isn't there a different grade of motorcycle/scooter license based on displacement and maximum speed of scooter/motorcycle?

[OakLeaf]

Erm, though, has anyone ever taken a driving test who didn't believe in their own mind that they could drive safely? When is it okay for a vehicle operator to substitute their judgment for the license examiner's?

I feel for people with limited mobility, I truly do, but I don't think smaller motorized personal transport is the solution. After all, closing speed between a car and a slower vehicle is the same no matter which one you're operating, and reaction time if anything needs to be quicker on a bike. Then you have issues of grip strength and neck mobility, which are much more problematic with handlebars and limited mirror space than they are in an enclosed vehicle with a steering wheel. I think our elders' concerns (and our own as we age) are much better addressed with infrastructure - walkable communities, more pervasive public transit, and accessible facilities. I love living in the country, but I have to accept that I can only live here as long as I can drive. DH is already making noises about moving to an urban center now, while it's still relatively easy for us to adjust, rather than waiting until necessity forces us there, at an age when change may be even more disorienting than it is for a younger person. I'm sure his mother's experience is prominent in his thinking - she's essentially a prisoner in her own home because of the lack of sidewalks and public transit, and the distance to any type of shopping or recreation. The last few times I was a passenger while she drove it was terrifying for both of us, but there's no doubt in my mind that she's safer in a car than on a trike on those roads. And in her late 80s and recently widowed, the idea of moving out of the home where she's lived for 40+ years is probably even scarier and more overwhelming to her than traffic is.


W/r/t the motorcycle drift, in no particular order - many states have more lenient licensing requirements for mopeds, and some include any gas powered vehicles 49cc or less whether or not they have pedals. Some states require new riders to wear a helmet for their first year of licensure. Other than that I'm not aware of any graduated licensing like they have in Europe.

A café racer is something completely different from a sportbike, and you may be thinking "older" just because most people choose older bikes for that kind of project. It's a standard bike that's been modified, I think always with clip-ons and solo saddle, and often with a bikini fairing and/or other mods. They're also probably less popular now that people can buy a naked bike new.

As far as corporate ownership, BMW has always been its own company. H-D did some engine development collaboration with Porsche, which might be what you're thinking about. Buells were originally built with Sportster engines, and there was a period when H-D owned a substantial minority of the company and sold their bikes in H-D dealerships, but that's long past, and the few bikes that Erik is still building have I think Rotax engines.

Ah, California, the only place in the USA where a non-enthusiast has even heard of Aprilia.

[Sky King]

The League of American Bicycles is looking for some good feedback on electric bikes. Here is the article
http://bikeleague.org/content/survey...electric-bikes