DI2 Depression.

[Wahine]

I don't buy the 'it's not fair, not everyone has the technology' argument on DI2. There is LOTS that people don't have (and cannot afford) and is allowed in races on the same footing: lighter bikes, nice carbon wheels, amazing TT bikes, properly fit bikes, components that are higher grade than others. Some even race with powermeters and heart rate monitors, aero skin suits, aero helmets. I won't go on. I don't see a fundamental problem with electronic shifting in this dimension -- the playing field isn't level already. Electronic shifting does not propel the bike and, at the end, a strong rider in a clunker can drop the fanciest equipment ridden by a bad rider.

All very true. But there is still a supplimental power source that replaces part of the physical effort of effectively operating a bike. No it doesn't propel you forward, but it is part of what allows you to move forward efficiently. I think that actually makes a difference. Having said that, advances in technology like lighter frames, better none electronic shifting, brakes etc don't bother me at all. I'm not trying to claim that my objection to Di2 is fully rational.

[Seajay]

the purist in me objects strongly to a motor on a bike. I get it. It's slick, it's the new thing, it's what the pros are using and Shimano has done a hell of a job with it's marketing. But it's still a motor. It still replaces some of the mechanical effort of the rider to make the bike perform and I'm not OK with that. I'm really not.

Go ahead and put a motor on your bike, but don't pretend it's the same as a fully human propelled bike, because it's not.

What is the world coming to.

Rant over, thank you for listening.

Hi Wahine, - et al "purists"
Just to give you a little perspective. I did three upgrades for customers this past summer to Di2. ALL THREE were women with small hands, one with severe arthritis who were really struggling with shifting their road bikes. Two of these customers literally told me they saw the end of their cycling was very near. I feel Di2 gave them a new lease on their enjoyment of cycling.
Sure the "Racer Boys" who run the cycling industry are touting all the "racing performance" of Di2...but performance can be many things to many people.
I'm sure you didn't mean to tell the woman that she is not allowed to enjoy cycling anymore because she has arthritis.
Just a thought.
Seajay

[pll]

That does not bother me. In the early days, people had only one ring and two cogs, and had to get off their bikes to shift to the other cog. Talk about taking some of the effort out of the equation. So, electronic shifting does not bother me at all. It is a continuum of changes along different dimensions. <But having to apply a software patch to my bicycle would be perturbing to me. So much for rationality.>

[rebeccaC]

"Don't upgrade, ride up grades"

Campy 10 index has work well for me for a number of years now so I don't feel any need to change to electronics and I'm not luddite enough to want to deal with the nuances of friction shifting. Electronics can offer something positive in a number of ways for some people and no matter what that want is influenced by I'm fine with it.

[goldfinch]

Hi Wahine, - et al "purists"
Just to give you a little perspective. I did three upgrades for customers this past summer to Di2. ALL THREE were women with small hands, one with severe arthritis who were really struggling with shifting their road bikes. Two of these customers literally told me they saw the end of their cycling was very near. I feel Di2 gave them a new lease on their enjoyment of cycling.
Sure the "Racer Boys" who run the cycling industry are touting all the "racing performance" of Di2...but performance can be many things to many people.
I'm sure you didn't mean to tell the woman that she is not allowed to enjoy cycling anymore because she has arthritis.
Just a thought.
Seajay

I have a friend in the same position. But, she still struggles with braking. And doesn't appreciate the gearing choices for electronic shifting.

It would be great for my spouse but he would never buy it. I think he would rather walk than pay the price.

[Tokie]

It is my understanding that the Shimano electronic shifting will not prevent cross-chaining. And I was not pleased with the extra wiring & battery pack that goes along with it. I am especially good at cross-chaining myself & when I heard that the electronic shifting doesn't prevent my careless shifting -pffff!

[rebeccaC]

It is my understanding that the Shimano electronic shifting will not prevent cross-chaining. And I was not pleased with the extra wiring & battery pack that goes along with it. I am especially good at cross-chaining myself & when I heard that the electronic shifting doesn't prevent my careless shifting -pffff!

Well, the front derailleur will be correctly trimmed when cross-chaining with electronics Technology does have a way of evolving into better systems!! There will probably be wireless, programmable (to not cross-chain etc.) and very small battery systems in the future!

[nuliajuk]

Electronic shifting is less of a drastic change than clip-less pedals were. Does anyone else remember when they came in, back in the 80s? At that time, criterium races were started from a standing start - the commissaire fired the gun as you stood at the start line and you tried to get your feet in your toe clips and tighten your straps as you rolled forward. Clip-less pedals were seen as unfair, so many commissaires started doing a rolling neutral lap to level the field. Today many still do, even though you never see toe clips in races any more.
The point is, bicycling has always been a sport of ever-improving technology and most of the things we use and take for granted on our present day bikes were "unfair" to someone at some point in the past.

[TigerMom]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what DI2 is. As far as I understood it, the electronic DI2 only helped you shift better and smoother but does NOT assist with how well you can power your bike with your legs. Therefore, I don't understand how DI2 is "cheating" in terms of being a fully human-pedaling bike.

[Skippyak]

Mostly the issue will be about the haves and have nots, same old same old, no? Cheating is in the eye of the checkbook holder when it comes down to equipment envy or disgust. It is a lot of money for an upgrade.

[Wahine]

Hi Wahine, - et al "purists"
Just to give you a little perspective. I did three upgrades for customers this past summer to Di2. ALL THREE were women with small hands, one with severe arthritis who were really struggling with shifting their road bikes. Two of these customers literally told me they saw the end of their cycling was very near. I feel Di2 gave them a new lease on their enjoyment of cycling.
Sure the "Racer Boys" who run the cycling industry are touting all the "racing performance" of Di2...but performance can be many things to many people.
I'm sure you didn't mean to tell the woman that she is not allowed to enjoy cycling anymore because she has arthritis.
Just a thought.
Seajay

I agree. As a bike fitter I see the advantage to many people. I just don't think that Di2 should be in the same category as a regular bicycle.

Electronic shifting is less of a drastic change than clip-less pedals were. Does anyone else remember when they came in, back in the 80s? At that time, criterium races were started from a standing start - the commissaire fired the gun as you stood at the start line and you tried to get your feet in your toe clips and tighten your straps as you rolled forward. Clip-less pedals were seen as unfair, so many commissaires started doing a rolling neutral lap to level the field. Today many still do, even though you never see toe clips in races any more.

I don't agree with this. Many of the improvements in bike technology are purely mechanical devices. Di2 has an external power source. IMHO that puts it in a different category. Again, I have not issue with it for facilitating riding for people that have physical issues. I'm just arguing that Di2 can't be compared to a regular bicycle, especially in competition.

[zoom-zoom]

I totally agree that if you have hand issues (arthritis, etc), electronic shifting is definitely a plus. I think there's a difference between accommodating so that you can ride comfortably and buying it because of purported performance improvement (and because it's a cool new toy). But then, you could say that about nearly anything.

I thought Di2 was stupid, too...until I broke my wrist mountain-biking. It's taken me a long time to have enough strength in my fingers/wrist/hand to properly shift my right SRAM lever and my wrist limited my rides until the past couple of months. Had I broken my left wrist I'd really be screwed. It's hard work shifting to the big ring on that side even with a fully functional wrist.

So, yeah, they serve a purpose. I'm considering Di2 on my next bike...especially if I develop arthritis in my bum wrist. Anything that allows me to bike more, in spite of physical limitations/injury, is a good thing.

[zoom-zoom]

I used to only ever drive stick shifts, it is the same thing really, who drives a stick unless you have a performance car anymore? I love auto cars. I get hives when I have to drive my DHs stick shift and I drove stick for longer than I have driven auto. I am waiting for the auto version in bike shifting.

Ha, and you could not PAY me to drive an automagic. Gah, I replaced one automatic transmission in my first car (previous owner clearly had not maintained it properly). Manual absolutely rocks in snow! And traction/stability control blows. I can always upshift and get my foot off the gas faster than those systems will kick-in. I won't even buy a car with automatic transmission.

[Crankin]

I'll take all wheel drive plus my super snow tires any day. A manual transmission could not get me up my driveway in 12+ inches of snow and ice. And I am talking about a small sedan and a mid sized station wagon.
I've had manual transmission cars and there's no way I'd have one now. Too much work! New cars rarely have automatic transmission issues.

[Catrin]

I agree. As a bike fitter I see the advantage to many people. I just don't think that Di2 should be in the same category as a regular bicycle.

.... Many of the improvements in bike technology are purely mechanical devices. Di2 has an external power source. IMHO that puts it in a different category. Again, I have not issue with it for facilitating riding for people that have physical issues. I'm just arguing that Di2 can't be compared to a regular bicycle, especially in competition.

Agreed, there is always room for technology that makes it easier for a wider range of people to ride - but not all of them should be allowed in competition.

I'll take all wheel drive plus my super snow tires any day. A manual transmission could not get me up my driveway in 12+ inches of snow and ice. And I am talking about a small sedan and a mid sized station wagon.
I've had manual transmission cars and there's no way I'd have one now. Too much work! New cars rarely have automatic transmission issues.

I LOVE a manual transmission. PART of it is due to the fact that FOR CARS IN MY PRICE POINT a manual transmission is more responsive in the lower gears. In the end, however, I just prefer a manual transmission and as long as I've two feet I will drive one I HAVE heard interesting things about a hybrid transmission available in some cars where you can switch between manual and automatic? Unsure if I have that right and I don't see that ever being available in my price range. Something like that would be nice if one happens to injure the left foot or leg... That is the only downside to a manual transmission.

It is also dangerous for me to drive an automatic as I want to shift it.... BTW, seems to me I know people with a manual + all-wheel drive? I could be mistaken on that.