DI2 Depression.

[pll]

I also find electronic shifting like a little "invasion" of sorts, like I would lose something if I get it. However, I can see it can be helpful if you have hand issues. For example, shifting from the small ring to the big ring I always had difficulty (much improved after I splurged on some exotic Japanese cables, though). Electronic shifting might make that easier for me. Also because of my weak grip, I am keeping an eye on hydraulic brakes for a future bike.

Have you gals taken a look at how DI2 works? It's neat to see both derailleurs adjust at the same time. No more cross-chaining.

<Before you throw tomatoes my way, keep in mind that all of this comes from someone who drives a car with a manual transmission, without automatic locks or windows. And I don't have a smart phone, either.>

[OakLeaf]

I also find electronic shifting like a little "invasion" of sorts, like I would lose something if I get it.

Really, that's exactly how I felt about indexed shifting at first. Not that it stopped me from installing the little washer click-side up when you still had the option of "fretless..."

[Owlie]

I also find electronic shifting like a little "invasion" of sorts, like I would lose something if I get it. However, I can see it can be helpful if you have hand issues. For example, shifting from the small ring to the big ring I always had difficulty (much improved after I splurged on some exotic Japanese cables, though). Electronic shifting might make that easier for me. Also because of my weak grip, I am keeping an eye on hydraulic brakes for a future bike.

Have you gals taken a look at how DI2 works? It's neat to see both derailleurs adjust at the same time. No more cross-chaining.

<Before you throw tomatoes my way, keep in mind that all of this comes from someone who drives a car with a manual transmission, without automatic locks or windows. And I don't have a smart phone, either.>

I totally agree that if you have hand issues (arthritis, etc), electronic shifting is definitely a plus. I think there's a difference between accommodating so that you can ride comfortably and buying it because of purported performance improvement (and because it's a cool new toy). But then, you could say that about nearly anything.

[Skippyak]

I used to only ever drive stick shifts, it is the same thing really, who drives a stick unless you have a performance car anymore? I love auto cars. I get hives when I have to drive my DHs stick shift and I drove stick for longer than I have driven auto. I am waiting for the auto version in bike shifting.

[pll]

I used to only ever drive stick shifts, it is the same thing really, who drives a stick unless you have a performance car anymore? I love auto cars. I get hives when I have to drive my DHs stick shift and I drove stick for longer than I have driven auto. I am waiting for the auto version in bike shifting.

Just in case, mine is not a performance car. I simply like a manual transmission, it's fun to drive. The same car with an automatic transmission is heavier and less responsive.

[OakLeaf]

But I adore the CVT in my Prius...

[zoom-zoom]

I used to only ever drive stick shifts, it is the same thing really, who drives a stick unless you have a performance car anymore? I love auto cars. I get hives when I have to drive my DHs stick shift and I drove stick for longer than I have driven auto. I am waiting for the auto version in bike shifting.

Ha, and you could not PAY me to drive an automagic. Gah, I replaced one automatic transmission in my first car (previous owner clearly had not maintained it properly). Manual absolutely rocks in snow! And traction/stability control blows. I can always upshift and get my foot off the gas faster than those systems will kick-in. I won't even buy a car with automatic transmission.

[Crankin]

I'll take all wheel drive plus my super snow tires any day. A manual transmission could not get me up my driveway in 12+ inches of snow and ice. And I am talking about a small sedan and a mid sized station wagon.
I've had manual transmission cars and there's no way I'd have one now. Too much work! New cars rarely have automatic transmission issues.

[Catrin]

I agree. As a bike fitter I see the advantage to many people. I just don't think that Di2 should be in the same category as a regular bicycle.

.... Many of the improvements in bike technology are purely mechanical devices. Di2 has an external power source. IMHO that puts it in a different category. Again, I have not issue with it for facilitating riding for people that have physical issues. I'm just arguing that Di2 can't be compared to a regular bicycle, especially in competition.

Agreed, there is always room for technology that makes it easier for a wider range of people to ride - but not all of them should be allowed in competition.

I'll take all wheel drive plus my super snow tires any day. A manual transmission could not get me up my driveway in 12+ inches of snow and ice. And I am talking about a small sedan and a mid sized station wagon.
I've had manual transmission cars and there's no way I'd have one now. Too much work! New cars rarely have automatic transmission issues.

I LOVE a manual transmission. PART of it is due to the fact that FOR CARS IN MY PRICE POINT a manual transmission is more responsive in the lower gears. In the end, however, I just prefer a manual transmission and as long as I've two feet I will drive one I HAVE heard interesting things about a hybrid transmission available in some cars where you can switch between manual and automatic? Unsure if I have that right and I don't see that ever being available in my price range. Something like that would be nice if one happens to injure the left foot or leg... That is the only downside to a manual transmission.

It is also dangerous for me to drive an automatic as I want to shift it.... BTW, seems to me I know people with a manual + all-wheel drive? I could be mistaken on that.

[zoom-zoom]

BTW, seems to me I know people with a manual + all-wheel drive? I could be mistaken on that.

My brother's Subaru is AWD and manual. A Subie is high on our list of next cars...I'd love a manual Crosstrek!

And snow tires...LOVE mine. I can't even make the ABS kick-in 90% of the time when I'm driving in the Winter.

[OakLeaf]

Well ... since you'd lock an automatic into first or second to climb my lane in snow anyhow, there's really no difference there. (Except that with an automatic, you have to remember to shift down to lock out the automatic upshift, where a manual stays there all by itself. )

But now that my last two cars have been CVT, I don't think I'd want another car with fixed gear ratios no matter how the shifting worked.

@Catrin, Subarus have had that feature for probably ten years? They introduced it right after we bought our last 'Ru, which was an '03. It might have been part of another option package even then, and only later became more standard. I know my mom's car has it. I don't know how common it is in other non-sports cars. But it's still a traditional hydraulic transmission, you just have the option to lock out the automatic shifting and select the gear manually.


As far as maintenance, yeah ... that's a bugaboo from the 1960s. Nowadays as long as you keep your ATF topped off and change it once in a blue moon, you're very unlikely to have problems. Where, when's the last time you bought a used stick shift that DIDN'T have a burned out second-gear syncro?

[zoom-zoom]

Nowadays as long as you keep your ATF topped off and change it once in a blue moon, you're very unlikely to have problems. Where, when's the last time you bought a used stick shift that DIDN'T have a burned out second-gear syncro?

We've never even replaced a clutch (or required any other maintenance) on any of our manuals...this includes several cars with well over 200k miles (we've had 4 in about 20 years). I think a properly used MT (ie not riding the clutch) and properly maintained AT are probably pretty comparable. I just personally don't see the point in AT when it typically costs more and potential issues are also pricier to repair. Plus they just work better under the driving conditions I encounter. If I had to do lots of stop-and-go city driving I'd probably feel differently.

[Catrin]

... Where, when's the last time you bought a used stick shift that DIDN'T have a burned out second-gear syncro?

I've never had a problem with a manual transmission or clutch - outside of the one on which I learned how to drive Until a few years ago most of my cars were very old and very well used 5-speed Hondas of one type or another. There WAS one American car in the mix that I drove until the car started falling apart - but the drivetrain was fine! Hard to find used cars like that any longer...

Zoom, thanks for the confirmation, I KNEW there were all-wheel drives with manual transmissions but I couldn't think of an example at the moment. I've always lived in the city and don't even think about urban traffic with shifting - for me shifting IS "automatic"

[zoom-zoom]

I totally agree that if you have hand issues (arthritis, etc), electronic shifting is definitely a plus. I think there's a difference between accommodating so that you can ride comfortably and buying it because of purported performance improvement (and because it's a cool new toy). But then, you could say that about nearly anything.

I thought Di2 was stupid, too...until I broke my wrist mountain-biking. It's taken me a long time to have enough strength in my fingers/wrist/hand to properly shift my right SRAM lever and my wrist limited my rides until the past couple of months. Had I broken my left wrist I'd really be screwed. It's hard work shifting to the big ring on that side even with a fully functional wrist.

So, yeah, they serve a purpose. I'm considering Di2 on my next bike...especially if I develop arthritis in my bum wrist. Anything that allows me to bike more, in spite of physical limitations/injury, is a good thing.