Deltoid injury?

[Catrin]

If I had a torn rotator cuff, I wouldn't attempt push-ups. I would, however, do exercises that worked the area doing something that has less inherent risk of injury. My reaction to your first post was exactly the same as Crankin's.

Maybe it's time to learn to exercise in a new way? Something a little more deliberate and controlled? Then you could approach the types of exercises you are doing now with an increased understanding of your own kinesiology. An injury every few years, fine. Several per year? Not so much.

Thankfully no torn rotator cuff, just tendinitis in my pec minor (Pec Minor Syndrome) and the cuff appears to be fine He thinks the underlying cause of the tendinitis is actually the underlying cause of my dysfunctional shoulder and THAT is progress as this is the first time we've had an idea what that cause might be.

I won't be doing pushups or pressing/overhead activities until the inflammation goes away - and then I will revisit that decision. It was just SO painful last night that it really got my attention and I thought it was my rotator cuff. This year I've tried to be much better in focusing on not doing what hurts - and trying to keep my ego out of it. I've only recently added pushups back in, and obviously that was a mistake. Apparently I also need to stop sleeping on my side.

SO thankful that this doesn't appear to be on the same scale as the injuries from 2010-2011. This IS my first new injury since the whiplash injury in late 2011, which still isn't right... The PT this last winter was due to a long-term dysfunctional shoulder, not a new injury. They just keep on giving :\

[ridebikeme]

Glad to hear that perhaps your injury isn't as serious as previously thought, although I'm certainly trying not to minmilize it either. Good luck with your treatment!

IN addition to the shop, I also work as a personal trainer at a nearby hospital. I love that it seems that many people are interested in fitness and many like the CrossFit type of workouts! I LOVE the energy both physically and mentally. But with lots of different types of exercise, we definitely have to be careful with some of the movements. I see this all the time with people watching Youtube videos, and trying to to duplicate the same movement themselves. Some certainly are very good, but others are definietly putting our bodies in position for potential injuries.

Anyway, I know I got on another subject altogether, but take care and keep us informed!

[Catrin]

Yes Ridebikeme, we certainly have to be careful with how we address our movements. That is why I love my group training environment. Our coach is an old-fashioned strength and conditioning coach. He does use Crossfit methodology, along with other tools. He strongly insists on proper form. There are certain things I am not allowed to attempt, or must scale because I cannot perform them properly, and on other things he makes me stop if my form starts to deteriorate. As he keeps telling us, weight doesn't matter if we can't perform the movement right.

I am the slowest and weakest in my group - and that is OK, this is not about ego. I am also the oldest I've seen SO much physical improvement in the last 11 months of doing this - and this is the closest thing to an injury I've had. No matter that I am the slow one, I can do things that I once never dreamed of. I love this, but I would probably not join a straight CrossFit box unless the coaches had the same kind of background. There has to be the knowledge base to know HOW and WHEN to scale the work properly for different limitations. The interesting thing is my neck does much better when I do this 3 times a week, if I drop down to twice a week my neck complains.

What happened Thursday had a bit of ego to it, we were doing a different type of pushup and I was so initially pleased at being able to do it that I started ignoring my body. That won't happen again.

In a way it is good it happened, because it is pointing to a probable root cause of my overall shoulder/scapular dysfunction and THAT is huge! It just hurt SO MUCH Thursday night that I really thought it was something far worse.

[OakLeaf]

Hope you can get it completely resolved.

Just a word of warning, I know your injury is nothing like mine, but I think one thing we have in common is that after things have been out of alignment for a long time, there's no one "key." The pec minor might indeed be the key to its own particular layer of muscle dysfunction. But I can just about guarantee there will be other keys. It's a little disturbing to me (but also typical of my experience) that it's taken this long for them to pinpoint a muscle that's so often involved in shoulder injuries and arm numbness. I wonder how your teres major is doing, just out of curiosity.

One reason I really don't have any desire to return to gym-type fitness is the overemphasis (IMO) on muscles farther up the kinetic chain, at the expense of foundational alignment that sets the whole thing up for good or ill. I had no idea until I started yoga, how key the hands are to doing a proper plank, chaturanga dandasana or push-up. Not just where they are or which direction they're pointing in, but having equal pressure on each metacarpal head and fingertip. You *can't* protect your shoulders properly until you have hand and wrist strength. Likewise, you can't protect your hips until you have foot strength. But nobody teaches that in any gym setting I've ever been in. Hope yours is different....

Doing push-ups with the aim of knocking out reps would be about the dumbest thing I could do right at the moment. But a good series of mindful sun salutations is actually beneficial to my shoulders. "Hands, feet and head" is one of my yoga teacher's constant emphases (head, because it's a big weight and easy to ignore the neck alignment).

Best of luck with the therapy. I hope you don't rule out acupuncture. It's nothing at all like getting shots, because the needles are so much finer, and doing motor point work in the neck, shoulders and chest shouldn't involve many points that can be sensitive (if any? but that isn't anything I know anything about except by experience). There are exceptions, mostly in the hands, wrists and feet where soft tissue is thin and there are a whole lot of nerve endings, but most of the time all you feel is a tap, no feeling whatsoever of being punctured and no pain. If there's a practitioner in your area certified in sports medicine acupuncture, that would be the way to go - when I just looked the website is down - but there are also lots of practitioners who studied motor point technique with Matt Callison, who developed it, before he started the certification program, so ask around.

[Catrin]

Good points Oak, and thanks for the tips on acupuncture. I am not ruling it out, just not looking to it as my first choice. It is good to know that it isn't painful!

I agree, when it comes to gym work form is SO very important. Thankfully my coach is unusual in this area, at least in my experience. He is very clear in the role of proper hand/hip/knee/foot placement and has no problem getting our attention in whatever way is necessary. He is also good at figuring out what cues to use in order to help us in this endeavor. It is still amazing to me, for example, I MUST look a certain place on the floor in order to not over-extend in a deadlift - if I lift my eyes higher than that point my back over-extends. It really is amazing.

Everything is all connected, and while my doc found this yesterday, yeah, there are certainly likely other contributing things. I HAVE seen marked improvement recently at my scapula-thoracic 'joint' which was certainly contributing to my problem. I think it's been difficult since my symptoms affect the entire shoulder girdle from my AC joint down to the bottom of my lat on that side. My cervical spine issues don't help. I've seen my shoulder freed completely after manual manipulation of just my neck! My own reading has shown that the pec minor syndrome CAN explain most, if not all, of my shoulder/scapula symptoms. So it will get some targeted love, along with my first rib and scalenes. I will look into the teres major.

In the end I am not looking for 100% improvement in that shoulder and neck, nor do I expect it. I am simply working to become as fit, strong, and flexible as I can become as I look to the next stage of my lfe - given my age and physical limitations. My focus is on movement, not so much the ability to deadlift x amount of weight or squat THAT. Those are good functional movements, and that is their focus for me. I've come a long ways in the last 11 months and am very thankful. Working in my group environment helps to keep me humble and focused on what I can do.

Added: I just looked up the teres major, and considering it's interaction with the lat, it seems good to check out some exercises for that. We know my serratus on that side also needs attention. You know, the body is just so amazing, my right side is as functional as my left side isn't. The human body is SO good at compensating! I suspect that my body's been compensating for decades on that side - which is why it is has been so difficult to solve this.

[Crankin]

Glad you are getting to the cause ofyour pain, Catrin. I am just echoeing what Oak said about acupuncture; it is not a painful experience at all. While I did not have it for a sports injury, I was considering it again for my back, if the PT had not solved the problem.

[OakLeaf]

Thankfully my coach is unusual in this area, at least in my experience. He is very clear in the role of proper hand/hip/knee/foot placement and has no problem getting our attention in whatever way is necessary. He is also good at figuring out what cues to use in order to help us in this endeavor.

That's great. I'm jealous. In my gym, if I spent five minutes with my participants sitting on their mats with their hands out in front of them trying to get equal weight on all ten metacarpal heads, half of them would just start doing push-ups the scary unsafe way they've always done them, and the other half would refuse to even try because "their wrists hurt." I think I would have to kick them to get their attention.

[Catrin]

That's great. I'm jealous. In my gym, if I spent five minutes with my participants sitting on their mats with their hands out in front of them trying to get equal weight on all ten metacarpal heads, half of them would just start doing push-ups the scary unsafe way they've always done them, and the other half would refuse to even try because "their wrists hurt." I think I would have to kick them to get their attention.

Tony doesn't HAVE to kick us - his voice is enough. I am the recipient often enough so can vouch for his effectiveness Of course this is part of the reason we pay him, unsure how that would go over in a free class. Of course with the kind of things we do if we DIDN'T focus on proper form then injury wouldn't be far behind. It is amazing how even changing where we look at makes a difference in body position.