talk me down off the ledge, please

[Crankin]

Well, I will agree that in certain part of the country, you will be treated more on superficial looks.
That said, I've made it clear that I color my hair (although I don't have more than a few strands of gray) at almost 60 and I plan to continue doing it for the foreseeable future. I think I look good for my age the way I am now and I like the fact that my co-workers usually guess my age as anywhere between 45 and 50. This is important to me, as they are all about 30-35, with the exception of my boss, who is 40. I have enough other stuff that makes me look "mature," and I think gray would make me look old. My personal opinion is that unless someone my age has perfect skin, gray makes you look old.
Now, I've met you GLC, and you certainly don't look old! However, your hair was brown, and I am trying to picture you with gray. What about going lighter? I have a friend with hair about your color and she had considerable gray. She now gets lots of blonde highlights, it blends in well, and it looks great on her. She's my age and it doesn't look "fake."
I know people have strong feelings about this issue, and you can call me vain. I think looks *are* important in the business world. Of course, I would never comment on someone's pictures like that dumb azz guy, but I won't be one to talk you down.

[TrekDianna]

I think you should do what makes you happy and what makes you feel better about yourself. I've never cared what people thought about me I've always been too much of a renegade my entire life and if you look at the things I have run off to do and the adventures I've had...I've earned the gray I have. I actually like my gray. I have streaks in the front. I wouldn't change them at all.

[Possegal]

I feel for you. I've said here before how my mother was completely grey at 16, so when I started to go in my teens, she didn't have a lot of sympathy. People started describing my hair as salt and pepper in my mid 20s, and by my mid 30s I was pretty much all grey. I die it, and I make no apology for it. (and yes, on this board and others, there are some very strong opinions about hair coloring ) I've also got some serious 'smile lines' (at least that's what they were in my 20s now they look a lot like wrinkles.) And my excess weight always makes me look older.

So now I deal with people thinking I'm 10 yrs older than I am, when I used to have people thinking I was 10 yrs younger. And when the roots grow in, it is worse. Need to touch them up now in fact.

No easy answers. Coloring it can be a pain. I agree with the idea of looking into coloring it but a lighter color. My grey-haired-old mother (what my dad always called her, very affectionately!) always said that once you stop coloring it and let it be gray, it is hard to go back to a darker color and you should look to something light but not grey. She'd say that your coloring changes. Probably an old wives tale, but she was one, so there is that.

Sorry that you're on the ledge. Just saying I feel your pain!

[smilingcat]

I'm sorry but I had a very good laugh. You forget my dear, you are working with bunch of ENGINEERS!! Bunch of social nit wits, a big social ZEROS. Take it with a grain of salt. Remember what HR people have to say about engineers, bunch of socially inept people social IQ is in the single digit.

FYI, I have a big streak of grey so much so that if Pepe Le Pew was around, he might fall madly in love with me or I could be a sister or cousin of Cruela DeVille. My silver grey is so strong and such sharp contrast that coloring was not an option. You could see a strong line across the hair where it grew out. Lot of it has to do with how you feel about yourself and how you project your self. Be the confident, happy self and that is what people will see. If you project a tired and worn out person, they will see that and see an old lady.

My partner is in her 60's but routinely, she is mistaken for someone 10 years younger.

Do what makes you and your husband happy.

[shootingstar]

This is just a side story of something that did happen coincidentally today:

For the first time, the manager decided to celebrate several employees' birthdays during this month. I was one of them (I turn 54 next wk.). But I didn't announce what my age was nor were others initially aware that my birthday fell in January.

However I did tell my supervisor when she was hired 6 months ago.....I dunno..why but I did mention I was over 50. She has my resume plus my graduating year of 2nd university degree. One could guess..sort of. 1-2 times in the past, she referred to me as "missy", which honest, I chose to ignore her. I think she realized her mistake.

Today, she was also another employee with birthday in same month along with 4 others. She made it clear...several times in fact within a span of 2 hrs., that she turned 50 this month. Not sure why she had to tell all of us. I don't think we cared in the end. She did choose to colour her hair 6 months ago to cover some blonde-white greyness. Contradictory, don't you think? Some people wanting to assert their seniority for certain social situations vs. whatever.

[Bike Writer]

GLC, well I'm not going to talk you on or off of it as others have so aptly stated it's your decision. Having said that, your story is compelling me to not even think about the ledge. I've been having a wild idea over the last couple of months wondering what it might be like to quit coloring and just go grey. You story and observations over how you feel others are and have treated you is enough for me to crawl back into the cave and forget about getting near a ledge. You said when you were out of town that others were treating you as being older, those people didn't know the colored hair you, so their perspective is different.

I began graying early, just like my mom. She was snow white at 40 and I was born, she began coloring her hair after that. I'm assuming that people mistook me for her grandchild and that is what prompted her, but I don't know for sure. At this point I'm just glad to have hair at all. I lost it all to chemo in my 20's, it grew back thick as ever but with the meds I've taken for my RA and my last surgery I've gone through a spell of thinning.

[lph]

Aww, GLC, that sucks. You know I've gone grey as well. It varies how I feel about it, on good days I feel awesome, on bad days I feel like a frump.

I've only skimmed the thread fast so I'm probably repeating someone. But anyway: for some strange, obscure reason we probably will be laughing at in a few decades, women are not expected to have grey hair unless they're "old". No matter if they naturally grey at 20, 30 or whatever. And "old" is something every woman is supposed to dread. (What happened to "grown-up" or "adult", anyway? Why do we all want to be "young"? We spend many more years being just adults than being "young" or "old".)
It's dumb, and has nothing to do with reality. We scarcely even dare to say the word old, it's elderly, or senior or something else wishy-washy. So going grey is a bit like not trying to hide or enhance small boobs, or not trying to cover up wrinkles, or in the case of my dh, working part-time "even though" you're a man - you're doing something that's not quite what society expects and there will ALWAYS be dumb people jumping to dumb conclusions.

But for every dumb guy who thinks you have 40 year old kids (I mean, REALLY?! |-D) there are 15 women who pass you daily thinking "dang! She looked pretty hot with grey hair, and she's not old. She's just like me, actually. Maybe I could do that too."

And for all you know that guy is the guy everybody thinks is hopeless because he's always jumping to stupid and wrong conclusions, or maybe he went home that day and confessed to his wife that he did something really stupid that day.

So, do we look older or not? People will not stop thinking that grey looks older than not-grey until many many more people go naturally grey. That's just automatic assumptions because of how we were all brought up and there's nothing we can do about it. But you know - I know some pretty awesome people who are in their 60's. I'm 42. I should be trying to be more like them, not less. And there's nothing wrong with a semipermanent hair colouring either.

We should have a "it's none of your business what colour hair I have-day", and colour it all purple

[goldfinch]

Very good post lph.

I am gray and I look old. I am 58. Part of the reason I look old is that I lost a lot of weight and my face is more wrinkled than it was before I lost weight. People probably think I am older than I am. I try to embrace being older and think of myself as a good example of what you can be like as a retired person.

I never even thought of coloring my hair until reading some of the similar threads on the forum. Now I kind of want to try it just to see what it would be like. I seriously doubt I would stick with it.

We can all do what we want with this. There are so many societal and business pressures that whatever choice a person makes is beyond criticism to me.

[luvmyguys]

I'm sorry but I had a very good laugh. You forget my dear, you are working with bunch of ENGINEERS!! Bunch of social nit wits, a big social ZEROS. Take it with a grain of salt. Remember what HR people have to say about engineers, bunch of socially inept people social IQ is in the single digit.

Around here, engineers without people skills get eaten alive. Please, please, please don't perpetuate the (often incorrect) stereotype.

[7rider]

For some reason, talk of hair color or hairstyles always gets me thinking of The Talking Heads and "Life During Wartime".
"I changed my hairstyle, so many times now, I don't know what I look like!"
Classic!
It also reminds me of the double standard on grey hair in men vs. women.
But then, I just colored my hair the other week, so I'm good for at least another 2 months.

[GLC1968]

For some reason, talk of hair color or hairstyles always gets me thinking of The Talking Heads and "Life During Wartime".
"I changed my hairstyle, so many times now, I don't know what I look like!"
Classic!
It also reminds me of the double standard on grey hair in men vs. women.
But then, I just colored my hair the other week, so I'm good for at least another 2 months.

I liked that clip, thanks for posting it!

It confirmed my earlier decision. My grey is staying!

I will admit that I like my hair MUCH better when I'm cleaned up and dressed for work or for something nice...I don't like what it looks like when I've rolled out of bed or after a workout or a swim. That's probably my own concern that I look like I don't care (grey hair + sloppy look) instead of just looking like I'm 'au naturale' as might have been the case when I was younger or still a brunette. I think that speaks to one of the comments in the clip that grey = I-don't-care or I've-given-up on a woman.

This was taken last fall so the style is different now but this gives you an idea (it's lighter now too because I wear it parted the other way and my right side is much whiter than the left side):

[IBrakeforPastry]

I'm sorry but I had a very good laugh. You forget my dear, you are working with bunch of ENGINEERS!! Bunch of social nit wits, a big social ZEROS. Take it with a grain of salt. Remember what HR people have to say about engineers, bunch of socially inept people social IQ is in the single digit.

After a personally rough year, I was hoping to get back into the swing of things, getting out and socializing more. But maybe if I'm a big zero, I shouldn't bother. I'll take this comment with a grain of salt, too, hoping it was just an inside joke between you and the OP.

[lph]

I share a house and a life with an engineer, work with engineers, and according to my job description I am one too, and I laughed - it's just how we describe ourselves too, more adept at figuring out how things work than how people work. Just a joke about stereotypes :-)

[Crankin]

In regards to the comments about engineers. My DH is a director of a division of a company that makes software for engineers and scientists (as well as several other fields). He's responsible for about 300 engineers, mathematicians, or scientists who support the sales people, world wide. He describes himself as the business guy who makes sure all of the geniuses are OK. The nature of the work these people do requires excellent social and communication skills, and from what he describes, it is very difficult to find people who have those skills and some very technical/specialized engineering skills. These are not people who generally stay in the development end of the field. So, it may be a stereotype, but there is truth in it. I hear a lot of stories, as one of my DH's main responsibilities is making sure the positions are all filled. Since the company is doing very well, it's a lot of pressure, as it is very hard for him to find good people.
Social skills are important in any job...