F'ing Root(s)

[OakLeaf]

Ouch. Feel better soon!

[indysteel]

Sorry - hope you heal quickly! Quick comment on the "return to noob" status- my sons who are way more technically capable than I (6 ft jumps, crazy crooked skinnys etc...) have all commented on the "relearning" process when ever they get a new bike. While an upgrade makes every thing easier ultimately, you are relearning your points of balance and realigning your center of gravity.....So hang in there (:

I experienced that when I went from a HT to a FS bike. Granted, I hadn't been riding long to begin with, but there was definitely a learning period. Zoom, are you out of saddle for this section of the trail? I can't tell from your description.

[ridebikeme]

I forgot that your new bike is a 29er... hopefully your husbands tires will eliminate some of the guessing. You're also right that a wider tire, 2.3...definitely ride slower as I'm seeing with my new bike. But I guess as always, there are tradeoffs everywhere.

Hope your hand heals quickly, and that you are able to get back out there!!

[zoom-zoom]

I experienced that when I went from a HT to a FS bike. Granted, I hadn't been riding long to begin with, but there was definitely a learning period. Zoom, are you out of saddle for this section of the trail? I can't tell from your description.

Nope. The stupid thing is that this spot is not the least bit technical, aside from the roots. It's a slight downhill with a slight camber down to the right, so my tires are sliding down the camber and I'm landing on the uphill...what little uphill there actually is. It really follows mostly where the hill meets the flatter ground. The sort of thing that would be completely and utterly unmemorable...were it not for the fact that now I'm scared sh!tless of the spot. When I hit it yesterday I didn't think it was possible that I'd crash there again. Then in that nanosecond of falling the thought that ran through my brain was "seriously...again...WTF is my defect?!"

So would being out of the saddle for this make a difference?

I am somewhat consoled to know that even skilled people have a certain learning curve with new bikes. I ride with a few women who hopped on mountain bikes for the first time in the past 6 months and immediately rode like they were born on a mountain bike saddle. It can be kind of demoralizing at times to ride with them and have them swooping gracefully around in the woods while I am struggling not to destroy myself on beginner stuff.

[indysteel]

I can't say for certain that being out of the saddle will help with this particular root. But in general, body bike separation cam aid in your stability. It allows you to shift your weight around the bike as needed and to act as a shock absorber. I find it much easier to react to technical terrain when I'm out of the saddle, especially if I manage to keep relaxed and loose. Even when I feel my bike slipping, I've been able to save myself.

But that said, tire pressure and wet leaves and roots can make things tough. There's no shame in avoiding the section for the time being and building your confidence back up. I freaked myself out last fall by riding in heavy leaves on a relatively new bike. I spent all winter doubting myself. I think it can be a tough time of year to ride, as gorgeous as it is.

[zoom-zoom]

Yeah, I really don't like the heavy leaves, to begin with. I have been pinging off of stuff all over that I can't see. The leaves aren't wet, but they're very loose and fluffy. In a lot of areas we can't even see the trail and only know where we're going because it's reasonably familiar.

[tealtreak]

I can't say for certain that being out of the saddle will help with this particular root. But in general, body bike separation cam aid in your stability. It allows you to shift your weight around the bike as needed and to act as a shock absorber. I find it much easier to react to technical terrain when I'm out of the saddle, especially if I manage to keep relaxed and loose. Even when I feel my bike slipping, I've been able to save myself.

But that said, tire pressure and wet leaves and roots can make things tough. There's no shame in avoiding the section for the time being and building your confidence back up. I freaked myself out last fall by riding in heavy leaves on a relatively new bike. I spent all winter doubting myself. I think it can be a tough time of year to ride, as gorgeous as it is.

ditto on the off the saddle- the luna chix pro exterra riders I have taken clinics from harped ad nauseum to stay off the seat- even if it is just half an inch- and if you watch wild little bmx boys (Danny MacCaskill kinda skill).....they never sit! I think it requires conscious effort if you also road bike but once you get used to it you will notice a difference.... (Though I can't say I wreck a lot less cuz I just do harder more technical stuff and faster! hahaha)

[ridebikeme]

One thing that I was thinking about is your mention of pulling the rear wheel back. I'm assuming that your LBS would have left enough chain so that it wouldn't afffect your shifting?? I know the distance isn't all that far, but between the affects of te suspension adn being a bit longer wheelbase... it could have an affect on your shifting.

Heal quick...

[Hi Ho Silver]

Nope. The stupid thing is that this spot is not the least bit technical, aside from the roots. It's a slight downhill with a slight camber down to the right, so my tires are sliding down the camber and I'm landing on the uphill...what little uphill there actually is. It really follows mostly where the hill meets the flatter ground. The sort of thing that would be completely and utterly unmemorable...were it not for the fact that now I'm scared sh!tless of the spot. When I hit it yesterday I didn't think it was possible that I'd crash there again. Then in that nanosecond of falling the thought that ran through my brain was "seriously...again...WTF is my defect?!"

So would being out of the saddle for this make a difference?

I am somewhat consoled to know that even skilled people have a certain learning curve with new bikes. I ride with a few women who hopped on mountain bikes for the first time in the past 6 months and immediately rode like they were born on a mountain bike saddle. It can be kind of demoralizing at times to ride with them and have them swooping gracefully around in the woods while I am struggling not to destroy myself on beginner stuff.

If the problem section is cambered, you should definitely be out of the saddle so that you can not only shift your weight from front to back, but also shift the bike and/or your body from side to side. Think of it like this - you are on a section where obstacles and gravity are conspiring against you and you and need to be able to dynamically adjust your balance throughout the section. An appropriate analogy would be ice skating on a bumpy cambered slope. Your position should sort of resemble that of a horse jockey (butt off the saddle but generally centered over it, torso crouched down, arms and legs adjusting your torso's position forward/backward/side-to-side).

Having said all that, if the front and back wheels are both sliding out at the same time, you may be SOL as far as that section of the trail is concerned.

[zoom-zoom]

Having said all that, if the front and back wheels are both sliding out at the same time, you may be SOL as far as that section of the trail is concerned.

That's kind of what I'm afraid of...perhaps my new bike's wheelbase is just *perfect* to be nailing 2 slippery roots at once. Old bike had a shorter wheelbase, DH's bikes all have longer.

I asked DH if the current chain would present an issue if we set the wheel back further and he said it should be fine. Wheel is currently set in the middle of the range, so the difference would be maybe a half inch.

I'm going to keep playing with the current tires and pressure for a bit longer. DH pointed out that even the most popular tire isn't going to work for everyone and maybe it's worth my trying something else if he tries mine on his bike and likes them. Most of the reviews I saw for the Trail Kings were very glowing, but there were a handful of reviews from people who had similar root slip issues. I liked the Kenda Nevegals and there is a tire they make that is a hybrid of that and the Small Block 8 (which I don't love, but mostly because we have a lot of sand around here and it doesn't do great in that) called the Slant 6 that sounds like a really good combo...much lighter than the Nevegals (which I saw referred to as "nevergos" in one place, heh).

[Catrin]

I noticed a difference with roots and rocks when I moved to Mountain Kings on the rear of my Jamis. While I changed it to get better grip in dust pools, I noted that I was getting more traction in the rear going over roots and rocks as well. You are a more aggressive (and much better) mtb rider than I am, but it might be worth considering. I don't know if it is any lighter than the Nevegal.

[zoom-zoom]

Interesting...I think the Mountain Kings had some pretty negative reviews when I was looking around online for tire recommendations. It all seems so relative.

[Catrin]

Interesting...I think the Mountain Kings had some pretty negative reviews when I was looking around online for tire recommendations. It all seems so relative.

It really does, my LBS staff really likes them and they are all avid mountain bikers. Several of them travel all over the country to ride, and most of them use them. They aren't inexpensive. Sometimes I think that for some people it is easier to give negative feedback rather than positive. It boils down to our own experience...

[Becky]

You might also consider the Panaracer Rampage as an alternative to the Nevegal. IME, they roll faster than the Nevs. No idea what the weight difference is though....

Also, it just occured to me: is it possible that this is just "new tire" slipperiness? I often notice more slipping and sliding with a new pair of tires.

[zoom-zoom]

You might also consider the Panaracer Rampage as an alternative to the Nevegal. IME, they roll faster than the Nevs. No idea what the weight difference is though....

Also, it just occured to me: is it possible that this is just "new tire" slipperiness? I often notice more slipping and sliding with a new pair of tires.

I wonder...I don't know enough about the properties of mountain bike tires to know what is normal.

The Panaracer Rampages are one that I have on my list of tires worth looking at if I decide that the Trail Kings are not the tire for me.

Today we rode some miles at some different trails. These trails have some rooty spots and didn't give me much trouble, but this area also has lots of pine needles, instead of leaves. For the most part I could actually see the roots. We also had my tires a bit softer than they were the other day. I really want to ride with a tire pressure meter to have a better metric of what is working and not working. Going by feel is really tough with mountain bike tires. With my road and CX bikes it's much more obvious what is higher PSI vs. lower.

I do love the way these tires handle sand, which is a big issue around here.