Changing careers

[Dogmama]

I did office work (business manager) for 36 years. Never loved it, never hated it - it put food on the table & provided a fairly nice retirement. Working for most of my life put my brain into work-mode and being retired is...hard. OK, no eye rolling please, Your world becomes smaller and society is really geared for working people IMO. I've done volunteer work and will continue but I'm looking for something for the next half of my life. I'm 58 years young & figure I could work for another 20 years easily. Thought about really delving into personal training but I DO have arthritis and I'm not sure I could keep it up for 20 years. Ditto on teaching spinning. More than 3 classes/week hurts my back (stenosis in spine.)

Some kind of social work or nursing has always called me. Nursing school is extremely competitive and frankly, I think my age is a detriment. I started social work school but had to take a pause. The teaching/helping professions have always interested me. But again, my feeling is that my age is going to hold me back from entering a competitive school market. I know they aren't supposed to do that but it IS done. OTOH, I'm also a really good dog trainer because I can communicate with most dogs easily. It is weird, but I have an innate ability to figure out where their confusion is and work through it (sounds like I'm bragging but I don't mean to - just want to explain where I'm at.)

I could go back to my old place (at a University) part time where the money would be good & the job would be stable but a good friend said that would be stepping backwards. Yet, I think it would be different because (1) I would go part time and (2) I'd have no golden handcuffs - my continued employment would not affect my retirement. They would pick up my health insurance and that alone is worth $350/month. Another thing is that we can really use some extra cash because my pension has not increased, nor is it going to anytime soon but prices continue to climb. So, I hate to invest in a lot of schooling just to find out that a career isn't what I thought it was.

SO - my question: Has anybody ever made a dramatic career change and how did you decide what to do? What were your obstacles? Was it worth it?

[westtexas]

OK, here goes a second time - I already had tried to post once before but it didn't take it.

Although I have not personally ever changed careers (only 1.5 years into my first!), I just want to say that you shouldn't let your age hold you back from applying to an academic program if it's something you really want to do. When I was in veterinary school, there was one woman in my year and one in the year below me that were over the age of 50. The woman in the year behind me (just graduated in May), is going to be 60 next year. Just because you are older doesn't mean you don't have something to contribute to the profession you want to enter. In fact, I wish I had more life experience. It would really help in relating to a lot of my clients - that and when you're older everyone assumes you know what you're doing. No one trusts the 26 year old doctor as much as the 50-something!

[indysteel]

I agree that you shouldn't let age hold you back from applying to and entering into an academic program. IMO, the bigger issue is how you finance that education and what further education will do to your short- and long-term financial situation. Obviously, servicing debt into old age or dipping substantially into retirement savings isn't ideal. Only you and your SO (I think you have a SO, Dogmama) can decide whether the cost is worth it. Obviously, employment prospects, average salaries and how long you intend to stay in the job market before you retire again should ideally factor into the equation as well.

I offer the caveat that I work for the US Bankruptcy Court. To say I'm debt averse is an understatement. So, take my advice for what it's worth.

[Amira]

I did office work (business manager) for 36 years. Never loved it, never hated it - it put food on the table & provided a fairly nice retirement. Working for most of my life put my brain into work-mode and being retired is...hard. OK, no eye rolling please, Your world becomes smaller and society is really geared for working people IMO. I've done volunteer work and will continue but I'm looking for something for the next half of my life. I'm 58 years young & figure I could work for another 20 years easily. Thought about really delving into personal training but I DO have arthritis and I'm not sure I could keep it up for 20 years. Ditto on teaching spinning. More than 3 classes/week hurts my back (stenosis in spine.)

Some kind of social work or nursing has always called me. Nursing school is extremely competitive and frankly, I think my age is a detriment. I started social work school but had to take a pause. The teaching/helping professions have always interested me. But again, my feeling is that my age is going to hold me back from entering a competitive school market. I know they aren't supposed to do that but it IS done. OTOH, I'm also a really good dog trainer because I can communicate with most dogs easily. It is weird, but I have an innate ability to figure out where their confusion is and work through it (sounds like I'm bragging but I don't mean to - just want to explain where I'm at.)

I could go back to my old place (at a University) part time where the money would be good & the job would be stable but a good friend said that would be stepping backwards. Yet, I think it would be different because (1) I would go part time and (2) I'd have no golden handcuffs - my continued employment would not affect my retirement. They would pick up my health insurance and that alone is worth $350/month. Another thing is that we can really use some extra cash because my pension has not increased, nor is it going to anytime soon but prices continue to climb. So, I hate to invest in a lot of schooling just to find out that a career isn't what I thought it was.

SO - my question: Has anybody ever made a dramatic career change and how did you decide what to do? What were your obstacles? Was it worth it?

I haven't made a big career change...yet...but this is something I think about a lot, as I hit 55 and am eyeing what to do in my 2nd act career. I envision retiring from my present job (lawyer) as an opportunity to do something more fun and more personally fulfilling, even if it's less financially lucrative (and most assuredly, less hours). If you have a pension that is covering your bases, this is a huge opportunity to try new things. If I really wanted to, I'd absolutely consider going back to school and it sounds like you have the potential to do that through work. Why would your friend say going back to the university (to work) is a step back? It's not like you want to be on a career track for promotion to the boss again. If, as you say, a part time job at the university where the (1) money is good, (2) the job stable, (3) it would pick up your health insurance (a BIG + in my book), (4) it would not affect your retirement income, that is a win-win in my book, as long as you don't hate the job. I would imagine that it would also offer reduced and/or free tuition, so if you were so inclined, you might also go back to school, even if it's part time. That's a win-win-win if that is the path to a career that really excites you. I would never discourage anyone from going back to school to fulfill a dream job (I would, however, discourge people from amassing big debt to do it, though) and I think there are niches that, even starting at over 60, can be filled (and yes, I do employment law and I do understand the subtle age discrimination that exists), but I think that there are flexible job options out there. For example, my sister is a teacher, but she stayed home with their boys for several years. When she re-entered the job market, she didn't want to work full time, so she did science labs for home schooled kids, which was 2 days of work a week instead of full time. Then, she eventually moved from that to a great job at a private school that she loves (and she went back in her 40's for a master's degree). If you didn't want to work full time, you could substitute teach or provide private hourly tutoring and/or SAT prep.

In my dream job, I would open my own photography studio and do children's portraits and I think that is doable as a 2nd career. It marries my passion for photography (and long-time serious hobby) with a way to stay in work-mode, but with flexibility to work as much or as little as I want.

Let us know what you decide to do. I'm excited about your opportunities to redefine you.

[goldfinch]

I retired from practicing law some years ago and now am 57 years old. It took me a few years to settle into retirement. How long have you been retired? The first three years were awkward for me as I tried to find my identity that previously was so tied up in being a lawyer. I spent much time at loose ends, trying to figure out what to do. I spent too much time doing volunteer legal work, which was too much like real work and had many frustrations as I was working on lobbying for health care reform. But I finally started settling into retired life. I gave up the lobbying work. Now I would never return to the ties of work unless I absolutely had to. This is my time. I learned new things. Home improvement. Jewelry making. Birds and more birds. I volunteer at a state park. I am on a board for a hawk migration organization. I even cared for a new born baby for nearly a year while my niece recovered from depression. I worked on my health, losing weight and learning to bike. Next week I am traveling to Minneapolis to take another bike class and visit with dear old friends.

I am a much more rounded person now that I am not tied to the day in day out grind of work, work, work.

I am so damn lucky to have this opportunity. I am going to make the most of it.

If you need to work some because of finances I would not be the least bit worried about whether it is a step back. Think about what are are looking for from the job and whether it meets your goals. If it does, who cares if it is a step back. You have some security because you have a pension. That gives you the freedom to take a step back if you want to and if it meets your goals.

[Crankin]

Dogmamma, I think my experience might help. We are the same age. I had originally intended to quit teaching (i.e. take my retirement $ and invest it myself) when my younger son graduated college. After he quit school and joined the Marines, I decided I would still quit 3 years later. It had been years since we needed my salary (which was very good) to live on, and we were using it to build our retirement and pay for college. I was interested in the same things as you. I even bought the study guide to take the ACE personal trainer exam. I wasted a lot of $! Even though I was a certified ACE group fitness instructor, I had let that lapse and the materials seemed daunting. So, I kept teaching and then I did just quit. That didn't turn out so well. I envisioned riding all of the time, but I didn't. All of my friends work and I've done my time with volunteer work, except for the stuff I do for AMC, which is mostly leading rides. I considered many quasi medical fields, but frankly, I have no science background or aptitude and I couldn't face taking chemistry, and other undergrad courses before applying to grad school. Heck, I already had an MA + 90 credits, as I was a PhD drop out, as well as a CAGS (post master's cert. for teachers) drop out. So, I went back and thought about what I really wanted to do when I was in college, which was to be a therapist. I didn't want to get a PhD, so I looked at 2 different degrees, clinical mental health counseling and social work. They have different routes to get to the same end, but I chose the clinical mental health counseling for two reasons. First, I wanted to do clinical work, not case work. Social workers get out with a masters, and then need to do various certifications to get licensed and to practice independently. Mental health counselors (and this varies by state), take the licensing exam right after they graduate and then can work, but with restrictions, until you get a certain number of hours. Of course MA has the strictest rules. We take the exam and then have to do the equivalent of 2 years full time work and then you are fully licensed, with privileges to practice alone.
I then had to decide where to go to school. I chose the expensive private university with a 3 year program over U Mass Boston, with a 2 year program, because I knew right away it was right for me. There were a good number of older students (we had a "club") who were career changers. And the majority of the students were in their 30s, not right out of college. I've been working for 1 year and 3 months, for a large social service agency, in their community mental health clinic. I will be taking my exam in a few weeks and I will have my hours at the end of June. I love my career, but it is very hard. You can't take it home with you. I had already learned that, in teaching, so it's not an issue for me. Self care is a must. And, I make my own schedule. I work 80% time and I will have plenty of hours... have free time during the week. Age is not seen as a detriment, from what I experienced in interviewing. I will be frank and say that being fit and looking a bit younger helps. I talked to the head of career services at my school and she was honest and said you don't look old or dress old and in this field experience is seen as wisdom.
Once I get my license, I will drop down to 2 days a week and I plan to work on the ACSM certification in wellness counseling and do that as my own thing on the side. There's enough desperate older, well off people who are willing to pay for this, with no insurance. I can keep my clinical skills up by working at an agency, as there's no way I want a full private practice.

[OakLeaf]

Well, I'm still floundering about in retirement myself - but I did want to comment that if you're interested in a fitness career, I don't think you should see your age and arthritis as a detriment there. On the one hand, "senior fitness" is exploding - my gym can't find enough teachers to do the always-packed Silver Sneakers classes - and on the other hand, not too many trainers are well equipped to deal with masters athletes who may have anatomical and degenerative limitations, but still want to maintain a high level of competition. Depending on your level of education in the field it might take a lot more education to get there (personally, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know, and the less equipped I feel to teach ) - but if you're interested, I wouldn't categorically rule it out.

[Amira]

My mom goes to Silver Sneaker classes. She's 82. Actually, this is probably a very 'growth' field. Interesting.

[IBrakeforPastry]

Just a quick reply because something is boiling on the stove. As far as nursing goes, if it's something you're really interested in, please don't let your age get in the way. My doctor provides training and other opportunities for new graduates and those still in training. They may be qualified, but they're young and have few "real life" experiences. They are very clinical, and their interpersonal skills can be a little immature. I'm sure with the right work environment they will continue to learn (I hope) but I sometimes wish there was someone a little more mature to discuss things with. The younger people need us older ones to act as professional mentors. (although the ones in my workplace simply rebelled and now the situation appears hopeless ). I hope I'm explaining this well without offending anyone. Good luck!

(I'm thinking of a vet tech for my next career which should be in a couple of years )

[Crankin]

I guess the idea that there needs to be more out there for us +50 athletes is kind of part of my motivation to pursue the ACSM wellness certification. There are several ways to qualify for the training course and being a therapist/counselor is one of them. Older people are willing to pay for this service (at least around here) as they often have some life experience with what happens to your health when you don't stay active. I like the idea of combining my 2 interests (fitness and counseling), being able to have my own business, without having to deal with health insurance as a motivator. I always will have to do clinical work at least a few hours a week to stay current; besides I really like what I do.
I've thought about resurrecting my ACE certification (it's been 15 years), only to teach senior classes, or at least slightly easier versions of boot camp/spin, etc. But, I know what will happen, I'll get burned out, so that will stay a thought in my head!

[SFLiz]

Hmm, let me add yet another former lawyer's opinion. Is it that we have a propensity for the sport of cycling or for giving career advice?

Anyhow, there are some philosophical issues embedded in this discussion. Many people tend to tie their identities with their livelihoods; many with their titles. Some excellent points have been made here. I will just add that I don't believe you should be concerned about whether a job seems like a step back, whatever that may mean to you. This touches upon how we perceive work. Is it merely a means to fund your existence, or rather a career that satisfies what you believe may be one of your purposes in life? I won't delve deeper into this except to suggest that you analyze how you think of "work", "purpose". Merely joining the W-2 fray just because you think the world is "geared for working people" may lead you to act summarily without allowing for thorough consideration of alternatives to your financial and emotional needs. Cantril and Bumstead examined our quest to understand our purpose through work in Reflection on the Human Venture. To question one’s meaning, one’s purpose, can be like opening Pandora’s Box. Tolstoy arrived at a great despondency, what he labeled as his “life arrest” in his essay My Confession, when he did so.

I do echo what Indysteel has expressed about debt. I am adverse to personal loans. Home mortgage is acceptable; however, I have strong opinions on this which are outside the scope of this discussion. I do caution against taking out a large student loan without heavy deliberation. I'm not saying it's absolutely bad; just think long and hard about signing onto that. I saw many lawyers who felt trapped in their career options because they had the anchor of their law school debt limiting their ability to leave firm life shackles. After spending too many all-nighters at the firm office as a corporate attorney during deal closings and giving too much of myself to a firm and clients, I had the freedom to leave that lifestyle because I had no debt.

I think goldfinch offers very perceptive thoughts - I agree with everything she's said; in fact, all of it resonated with my own beliefs and opinions. It takes some time to become accustomed to nontraditional work-days, but now that I am independent of an employer, I love it. I find it completely freeing and wonderful. But, then again, I was never one to find that work met any social needs for me. Many people miss the work place because they use it as an avenue for socialization; I never did. I became a lawyer because of the intellectual stimulation. I saw the constant pressure to attend firm functions, parties as an intrusion into my personal time. We all have differing emotional and financial needs. Just offering another opinion.

[OakLeaf]

Is it that we have a propensity for the sport of cycling or for giving career advice?

Ha, that's funny, I always said law school was the last refuge of people devoid of creative ideas about what to do with our lives. It sure was for me, anyway.

/drift

[Amira]

Ha, that's funny, I always said law school was the last refuge of people devoid of creative ideas about what to do with our lives. It sure was for me, anyway.

/drift

Amen, sister.

I actively discourage anyone from going these days. Maybe I've practiced too long. I am burned out and ready to do something else as well, but then I run into problem A, which is 'what do I want to do with my life when I grow up', all over again.

[Dogmama]

Wow, as usual, my TE sisters come through in spades.

First - education - as long as I attend a state university, I go for $5/semester. I retired with full benefits. So, no debt accrual.

Social work vs mental health counseling - sadly in AZ, the only thing available is a BSW or MSW through Arizona State Univ. If I wanted to do mental health counseling, it would have to be through Univ of Phoenix and that is more money than I want to spend. A friends amassed a student loan of $60K there & came out with a masters in counseling that will take her a long time to repay. Mental health counseling with an MSW requires 2000+ hours of internship. So, I'd be looking at 3-4 years before I could be a "real" counselor & take insurance. For me, that's too long.

Returning to the University - I would take basically a droid job. Crunch the numbers or manage some small project - nothing on the scale of what I left. I don't want the hassle or responsibility because I've been there/done that. I do think a half time job would be fine and if they paid my insurance (depends on FTE) that would be even better. I WAS one of those people who liked the social interaction with my peers & can get along with just about anybody. The position I left, senior business manager, was extremely difficult due to budget cuts. I was working 60 hours/week when I finally retired. Middle management sucks. None of the authority with all of the responsibility.

Personal training has always interested me but the gyms seem to employ 20-somethings with no wrinkles. If I did PT, I'd go for ACSM because it is the gold standard and I think it can open doors. I've always wondered if a middle age overweight woman would rather have another middle age woman working with her or a young boy who may not understand physical/mental/emotional limitations.
Here is a footnote to this - I have a good friend who is a Reiki master. I always thought that Reiki + personal training would be a great combination. Especially if I learned how to transfer energy. Just a thought.

Interesting about the lawyers on the boards - I've met so many burned out lawyers that I'm glad I never went to law school. DH is a private investigator - mostly murders. People seem to think that it's similar to TV dramas & it isn't. DH is still actively working. I thought the agreement when I retired was that he would cut back too but that ain't happening anytime soon. I'm not a happy house frau. I'd rather work & pay somebody to clean my house.

I'm relieved to hear about people who also flounder in retirement. My working friends roll their eyes at me. I used to think the same thing and I do enjoy my freedom. But I would like to have a purpose. I've done lots of volunteer work and will continue, but it's not the same as a job where people expect you to be there & depend on you.

[malkin]

Ok...a little OT here... I was just being bugged by my job, and read this thread, and shouted to Brewer (in the next room) Maybe I could become a fitness instructor! and he replied enthusiastically, "I think you'd make a fine chicken inspector!"