To go Custom or not...do today's mass-produced OTS bikes allow good enough geometry?

[SFLiz]

The only advice I'd add is to shop around and try several different bikes, perhaps beyond those you've listed. It seems you're in the Bay Area, so I can highly recommend Studio Velo in Mill Valley and Bicycle Odyssey in Sausalito. Both of those shops have an excellent and well deserved reputation for bike fitting, which is really the key whether the bike's custom or off the rack.

Good luck.

Thanks maillotpois / Sarah. Since you're in the area, any opinions on Mikes Bikes in Sausalito? I got my fitting done at Bespoke in the city. It was one of those detailed fittings that took 3 hrs - analysis of flexibility, biomechanics, injuries, measurements, feet/arches, ride form, power generation, etc. I just got that done last weekend but I get a sense that the fitting was more focused toward something that could be translated for Seven since Bespoke only does custom bikes.

[tulip]

It's a dangerous trap. Just go ride. That will give you more benefit than your ever expanding spreadsheet. Remember, perfection is a way of not doing things behind the mask of doing things right. That's simply foolish. Ask me how I know. Just get a bike (yes, a decent and comfortable bike--a Seven if that's what you want) and go ride.

-tulip (who is constantly fighting her own perfectionist tendencies)

[SFLiz]

If you are sure you can get a good fit in a stock frame go for it, otherwise, go custom.

Kathi,
Hence the dilemma since I feel like the only way I can figure out if I can get a good fit is to go on a long ride, which is not possible, before committing. Are we newbies simply destined to spend money on bikes that will not turn out to be keepers? It's what I'm attempting to avoid.

[SFLiz]

I, personally, might be very happy with a carbon bike that was well short of top of the line, so I think there may be some benefit to figuring out what you really need/want in a bike--not what your budget can theoretically allow. In other words, don't just spend a princely sum because you can. Figure out if the various upgrades make sense for how and where you ride. If you do that wisely, maybe your pantry won't have to put off for another year!

I hear you loud and clear, Indysteel and believe me, I don't want to spend more than I need. I just have hit the wall in terms of finding that I can't get a less costly bike (custom or OTR) with digital shifting, which is the one thing I have managed to decide that I both want and 'need' (relatively speaking, that is ) due to the terrain I normally will encounter when I ride. I so want my pantry if only I could figure out how to lower the bike expense.

[Kathi]

Your lack of experience concerns me too but having said that I didn't realize what a well fitting bike was until I got a custom frame. I went through 4 road bikes before I went custom. I spent a lot of money changing stems, handlebars, and a couple of forks, to get a better fit and more comfortable ride.

Granted, I haven't demoed any stock frames since I bought my Serotta 6 years ago. No need to, I have the best fitting bike and components, for me. Little things like the head tube height and seat tube angle were designed for my physical measurements. Campy components, handlebars, seat post, brakes, etc. were chosen specifically for me, by me and my fitter. Even my custom wheels were built with my 105 lbs in mind. I can't think of any of the components, maybe the seatpost, that I have on my bike that would be found on a stock frame. Even my Specialized Ruby saddle would not be there in my size.

The only thing I changed on my custom frame was the saddle, I went from a WTB saddle to a Specialized Ruby. The Ruby is much smaller and a better fit.

My Serotta is the bike I ride the most. I use my stock frame on my trainer and as a backup bike.

I'm not trying to convince you to do custom, maybe you do need to have a stock frame. I went through a lot of agony before I went custom. Today's bikes are better in fit for small riders than they were 6 yrs ago but I doubt if I'd be willing to go back.

[maillotpois]

Thanks maillotpois / Sarah. Since you're in the area, any opinions on Mikes Bikes in Sausalito? I got my fitting done at Bespoke in the city. It was one of those detailed fittings that took 3 hrs - analysis of flexibility, biomechanics, injuries, measurements, feet/arches, ride form, power generation, etc. I just got that done last weekend but I get a sense that the fitting was more focused toward something that could be translated for Seven since Bespoke only does custom bikes.

You can take your fit data to Studio Velo or Bike Odyssey and they can work with it, though they'll likely want to do some of their own work as well. You're right sometimes the longer fit is more intended to work with a specific custom brand (Seven or Serotta), but the data points translate to other bikes.

Mike's Bikes is a nice starter bike store. I got my first bike there and replaced it with a better bike within 3 months. I know they have higher end bikes now than when I purchased; however, they are more of a big box type of store than someplace like SV or BO. I don't think they have anywhere hear the fit capabilities of Bespoke, SV or BO. And they only carry certain (big company) brands so you may not be able to get a sense of what other smaller bike companies may be producing something that fits your needs.

I've also heard good things about Bespoke, just never went there.

I'd have to say in terms of customer service I'd probably go with Studio Velo even over Bicycle Odyssey. We're very loyal to BO, but you have to have a lot of patience when you go there because Tony's very busy and things tend to take a lot longer than they otherwise should because he get interrupted, can't say no, etc. But he is a master.

[maillotpois]

digital shifting, which is the one thing I have managed to decide that I both want and 'need' (relatively speaking, that is ) due to the terrain I normally will encounter when I ride.

Curious why this is such a priority for you? What is it that makes this a necessity?

[SFLiz]

Very meaningful food for thought - thanks so much Kathi. I would love a Serotta - they truly define excellence and something to strive for next time around perhaps. The LBS that did my fitting does offer custom Serottas but the starting point is just too high at this point (too bad the hubs has to get his bike at same time...if only it were just my purchase, the budget could be doubled....)

[SFLiz]

Curious why this is such a priority for you? What is it that makes this a necessity?

Well, it's mostly an indication of my low experience level but because we do ride through quite a bit of hilly terrain, there's a lot of shifting involved on a regular basis throughout our rides. I get a little anxious with the frequent up/down shifting when I'm a little late and there's the announcement of my inadequacies through the squirm-inducing sounds of chain crunching. The digital shifters I tried were so fast at shifting, it forgave my mis-shifts. The shifting felt really nice! After I rode with them, I went back to riding mechanical shifters and it was tough to forget the electronic shifting sensation in comparison.

[indysteel]

I'm with those who have expressed concern over your lack of experience. I think you may have a hard time expressing what you want to a builder. It also concerns me that you are fixated on digital shifting when some additional time in the saddle will help you learn how and when to shift. It's really not a hard thing to pick up. As Tulip has suggested, get a stock bike that fits and go ride. Don't overthink it and disabuse yourself of the notion that the bike has to be the end all be all. If after riding for a few years you still feel the itch for custom, then investigate that route. By that time you'll have a better idea of how you want it to fit and handle.

[GLC1968]

Haa haa, nailed it. Do you know me? I am totally a "paralysis by analysis" type of gal, unfortunately. I'm embarrassed to admit that I have a four page excel spreadsheet on bike component research alone, although I haven't updated it last month. Need to do a brain download again. It's bad.

Ha! I had that same spreadsheet and I'm sure it's still tucked away on a computer somewhere in my possession!

You are right in that it is very hard to know what is right until you've kind of ridden 'wrong'. In fact, as much as I wish I didn't have to have gone through my first two bikes, I'm glad I rode both of them for the experience. I was kind of like you in that I'd been riding a mountain bike and I was already fit, so really all the road bikes I tried felt so good that it was hard to tell. My first bike felt a tiny bit too big from the get-go, but it was still such a great improvement over the mountain bike that I didn't really think about it too much. I still rode it for my first year and about 3000 miles before moving on. Then I had a bike that was fit to me and ordered special and it was a huge improvement over the first bike. But I found that I couldn't stop shopping around. Honestly, I thought that was normal and just part of the territory of road biking...you are always lusting over the next thing! Turns out, I was wrong.

But you are 100% right in that it's extremely hard to just 'know' without the experience to base it on. So my advice is to just do the best you can now and accept that as you grow as a cyclist, your needs may change and that's ok. Bikes can be resold, so don't feel like this HAS to be the last bike you ever buy (as much as you may want it to be!). In fact, that may be a really good reason to not go with custom right out of the gate. It might be easier to re-sell a not custom bike if you do change your mind (and why not save a few pennies?).

Whatever you decide, best of luck with it! And welcome to the fold!

[Crankin]

I wanted to add more to my thoughts, now that I am not typing on my I Phone.

It is true that I had to have 2+ bikes that were wrong before I knew what was right. Because of what I learned here, I was able to do a lot of after the fact changing of components on my current carbon bike to make it fit well. My first 2 road bikes were bought when my DH was in a more "hard core" almost racer phase and we both have learned from my experience. My custom bike was built and purchased with a specific purpose in mind. I made some decisions that the shop owner didn't like, but the builder did it all. I still want to change my bars, but after an initial getting used to period, I am riding each of my bikes about an equal amount of time.
I am not one to freak over the prices you quoted. My non custom carbon bike cost 5K, 6 years ago, and my custom ti bike cost, well, more than that. Close to the range you were quoted but not quite as high. But, I never would have spent that amount of money after only riding for 1-2 years. My first road bike cost $1500 and the second cost about 3K. I've been riding for 12 years, I do a lot of hill riding, I'm short (5' 1"), and I would never spend the money for electronic shifters. Unless you have an issue with your hands that makes it physically difficult to push the lever, it's a crazy added expense. "Clunky" shifting sometimes is a result of user inexperience, although it can be crappy components. But really, shifting is an art and eventually, it becomes intuitive.
Personally, I would go for the stock bike, in your position, and really think about the extra added expense of the electronic shifters and the expensive wheels. My personal opinion is that unless you are racing, you don't need either right now. Ride for a couple more years and think about what you really need in a custom bike before you buy it.

[emily_in_nc]

Personally, I would go for the stock bike, in your position, and really think about the extra added expense of the electronic shifters and the expensive wheels. My personal opinion is that unless you are racing, you don't need either right now. Ride for a couple more years and think about what you really need in a custom bike before you buy it.

I totally agree. Also, before laying down that kind of coin, I'd want to be really sure that cycling was going to "stick" as an activity/sport of choice. There are a lot of really nice bikes hanging in people's garages because they were more into the idea of cycling than the cycling itself. In you situation, I'd go with a stock bike in the less than $2K price range from a good LBS that can help with fitting, and see how much you really love cycling. If, after a year or so, you want to upgrade, then you could keep the first bike as a trainer/bad weather bike and go custom or higher-end stock. By then you'll know what works for you, what doesn't, any oddball fit issues you might have, and the like.

And I also agree with others here that you don't need the electronic shifters. I've ridden in many hilly areas, and the shifting just takes a bit of practice; it is not rocket science at all. Sure, you may want it, but you don't need it.

Just get a good-enough bike and go ride. Lots!

[maillotpois]

Well, it's mostly an indication of my low experience level but because we do ride through quite a bit of hilly terrain, there's a lot of shifting involved on a regular basis throughout our rides. I get a little anxious with the frequent up/down shifting when I'm a little late and there's the announcement of my inadequacies through the squirm-inducing sounds of chain crunching. The digital shifters I tried were so fast at shifting, it forgave my mis-shifts. The shifting felt really nice! After I rode with them, I went back to riding mechanical shifters and it was tough to forget the electronic shifting sensation in comparison.

I'd suggest mastering regular shifting first, working on your skills, before immediately beginning to rely on technology to do it for you. It'll make you a better cyclist.

To that end, I've done a lot of skills coaching, used to coach century riders and Death Ride for TNT and would be happy to take you out and work on skills some day if you want to shoot me a PM. We do have plenty of hills, and I suspect you'll be so much happier with your riding if you work on those skills. I ride very high end bikes and wouldn't dream of putting my money into electronic shifting. I'd rather put it into a super frame or Campy record or great wheels. Not that there's anything wrong with it - and I know there are a few folks here who have it. But all of them were cyclists who had mastered the basic skills before buying the electronic.

[Becky]

Ride bikes, lots of them. Ride stuff that you think you'll love and stuff that you think you'll hate. Ride different sizes of the same model- you might be surprised by what feels right. Ride stuff at all price points. Is the $5000 bike twice as good as the $2500 bike, or does the $2500 bike feel just as good, but have slightly heavier components?

Every bike that I've ever owned has helped me further define my preferences, even if one or two have turned out to be the wrong bike. While I'd have preferred to get it right every time, the experience has been invaluable.

I agree with those who suggested going with a stock bike if the fit is right and working on the shifting skills. It quickly becomes second nature.