To go Custom or not...do today's mass-produced OTS bikes allow good enough geometry?

[SFLiz]

Hi. I'm new to this forum. I've never posted on a forum before but discovered this site this weekend. Many thanks in advance for reading. Could anyone who has experienced purchasing both custom and off the rack road bikes please opine on the value of both, in terms of fit/cost trade-off? I got fitted for a custom road bike but haven't made the leap because I've fallen into the bottomless rabbit hole of bike buying research. The price creep is dangerous. Originally I was leaning toward getting a custom Seven bike but my budget would limit my part set to SRAM Force and steel or possibly titanium (for another $800) frame. Already I'm looking at $4000-4800 range. Multiply that by two because my husband and I are buying at the same time and we're looking at over $10K. Painful chunk of change. My kitchen pantry addition is on the back burner yet another year.

But if I go OTS with let's say a Specialized Amira SL4, for around the $4800 price range I can get digital shifting and carbon frame (10r). (Equivalent for hubs is the Tarmac SL4 Expert UI2) And I know we really like the digital shifting because we rented two Trek Madone 5.9s and went on a hilly 50-miler and loved the shifting. After that, we were ruined. Jump to Ultegra Di2 would be another roughly $1300.

Question boils down to: do I really need a custom given what mass manufactures can do in today's industry? I don't have unique geometric needs. I'm 5'2". I'd probably get a 48cm Amira instead of a 51 because I'm slightly outstretched on the 51. On the Trek Madone I rented a 50cm and I was much too outstretched for my preference and comfort. The Seven frame of course would be outstanding. But you pay a lot for custom and Seven's quality obviously. They don't have the advantages of volume purchasing of raw materials. Specialized can cut costs with the carbon pricing they are able to get with their weight.

BTW, if I sound like an idiot, that's because I am in this realm. I'm new to road bikes and fairly new to bikes in general. I was never allowed to ride a bike around as a kid (my mom was completely paranoid and believed I'd get snatched up from outside our house). I didn't start riding until a couple of years ago (at age 37) after a lifetime of distance running, when I bought my first bike - a mountain bike and shipped it to Australia. While living there I also bought a flat bar tank (the cheapest money could buy - it cost around $500) and rode that puppy all around Sydney for a year and had a ball doing it. We joined a bike group while there as well and went on rides almost every weekend. I moved back to CA and have been riding all over San Francisco with my MTB for about last 1.5 years. After the hills kicked my arse over and over with my knobby tires, I switched to smoother Continentals and this has really allowed for more enjoyable rides as they roll much, much better. My MTB is fairly heavy - around 29lbs. I really want a road bike to better enjoy my rides across the bridge over to Marin headlands. I've also done these rides with a cheap folding bike (Breezer) and it's fun as well. But...when I tried the Madone, I got over to Tiburon so much incredibly faster and easier than my past rides with my MTB or folding bike, convincing me it was time to take the plunge and buy a road bike.

I'll be using my roadie for enjoyment, not racing. But that being said, I do like to roll fast and in a sick way, I quite enjoy the pain of a tortuous climb. Rides would be typically 50 or so miles with plenty of winding hills. I want to keep this road bike for a long time; I don't want to lust over new models every year. I don't want to change bikes every few years. I want to be happy with my bike for the rest of my riding years. That's why I thought custom but then I'd have to go titanium at best with lesser components (not that SRAM Force or Ultegra 6700 is bad -- they are good sets).

I also am thinking about upgrading our wheel-sets to zipps (but I don't want tubular!) for little more umph in speed. That's another chunk of change. At least 202s but....more $$

Any opinions would be greatly welcomed and appreciated. Thanks.

[indysteel]

There are a few reasons that someone needs to go custom versus mass produced: They have physical issues that cannot be addressed without a custom build; they want a feature or features that are not readily available in mass produced bikes, e.g., S & S couplers for travel; or they want a specific frame material that isn't readily available in the mass market, e.g, steel and ti. There are probably additional reasons, but those are what come to my mind.

Otherwise, it's largely a question of want. Now, I take no issue with those wants. I've drooled over way too many custom bikes to ever criticize somebody for going that route when they could otherwise buy an off-the- rack bike. Some legitimately want something unique, and that's a valid reason in my book. But I think it's important to appreciate that there is a risk with a custom bike that it won't end up being the bike of one's dream bike. I can attest to that, and I know of a few others on TE who were ultimately unhappy with a custom bike. It can be a costly mistake, just as any bike purchase can be. Any time you can test ride a bike, especially if you can go on a long test ride, before buying you are at an advantage IMO.

I don't know if that helps you navigate what you want. I, personally, might be very happy with a carbon bike that was well short of top of the line, so I think there may be some benefit to figuring out what you really need/want in a bike--not what your budget can theoretically allow. In other words, don't just spend a princely sum because you can. Figure out if the various upgrades make sense for how and where you ride. If you do that wisely, maybe your pantry won't have to put off for another year!

Also, in running your numbers, I wasn't clear whether you were also factoring in wheels in terms of the cost of custom. That can add another $600+ dollars (or well more) pretty easily.

[Crankin]

I have both a custom titanium bike (Guru) with Ultegra/105 and a stock carbon Kuota with a lot of modification for me, as it's a unisex frame.
I love both. You won't regret the custom, but the carbon will meet your needs. Can't speak for the electronic shifting, but money spent on custom is well spent.

[indysteel]

I have both a custom titanium bike (Guru) with Ultegra/105 and a stock carbon Kuota with a lot of modification for me, as it's a unisex frame.
I love both. You won't regret the custom, but the carbon will meet your needs. Can't speak for the electronic shifting, but money spent on custom is well spent.

Often it's worth the expense, but I have a $3500 custom ti frame hanging on my basement wall that rides like a torture device. So, you never know. Still, I'll likely go custom again if and when I want a new steel frame. So, don't put too much stock on my sour grapes!

[TigerMom]

Nice, large bike budget that you have.

I'm a newbie, but my sister has officially given me the title of "bike nerd".

So, my personal opinion is that if you are a very flexible, athletic person that does not have any funky anatomy and if you have tried riding all the brands of bikes that you are interested in and they all fit, then you probably do NOT need to go custom. Get that Ultegra Di2 that you are drooling over along with the better wheelset instead of the Custom bike with lower grade components. Also, since the 2013 are in, a lot of LBS are selling their 2011-2012 bikes at a discount

Big warning....I am a newbie. But I still want to see a bike photo to celebrate with you when you decide.
____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

[GLC1968]

I closely considered custom when I first started riding seriously because I am a tough fit. I went through 2 nice road bikes before I found my dream bike. And it's not custom at all. I've since stopped looking at nice road bikes and fancy frames except to admire them. I don't want them because I love my road bike more than I love my car (and that's saying something!). There are two things that have let me fall in love with my bike: 1) my road bike is unique and I've never seen another one like it in real life and 2) my road bike was as close as I could get to a perfect geometry for me and then I paid a lot of money for a spot-on fit. It rides like a dream and it fits me like a glove.

My road bike is dated. It's a 2005. It runs 9-speed Ultegra. It doesn't have fancy wheels nor is it 'tricked out' at all. It is Ti, but it's painted, so you'd never know unless you rode it (or read the label). But it's unique and it works for my needs 100%. Because of all this, I've stopped looking at other bikes and I can't imagine how any other bike could be better for me. That means, I bought the right bike. It wasn't the most expensive. It wasn't top of the line. And yet, I'm not swayed by those bikes because I love mine so much.

My point is similar to Indy's. The best bike for you is the RIGHT bike for you. Having the best of everything will not guarantee that you won't keep shopping around. And having custom won't guarantee that it'll be the perfect bike for you. It's really a shopping process and I can speak from experience in that when you get it right, it's right and you'll know it!

[maillotpois]

The only advice I'd add is to shop around and try several different bikes, perhaps beyond those you've listed. It seems you're in the Bay Area, so I can highly recommend Studio Velo in Mill Valley and Bicycle Odyssey in Sausalito. Both of those shops have an excellent and well deserved reputation for bike fitting, which is really the key whether the bike's custom or off the rack.

Good luck.

[Kathi]

I'm 5'2" also and rode stock frames for years. That said, they never really fit in spite of many alterations. I finally got frustrated with the handling of my carbon frame and built a carbon/ti Serotta. While the carbon frame is still a nice ride it doesn't have the same fit as my Serotta built for me. Everytime I ride the Serotta my body says ahhh, this bike is so perfect (fit, handling, ride). I built it for 650c wheels which I love.

Stock frames are built for average riders. If you're an average 5'2, whatever the companies deem that is, then you may be ok. In my case I have short arms and femurs. My custom frame addresses those issues.

You do have to have complete trust in the expertise of the fitter and be able to communicate your needs to them. the advantage I had was I had ridden both road and mtn bikes for years. My stock frame was set up the best it could be. I knew what I liked and didn't like and what my needs were. My fitter was able to use my old bike as the starting point for my custom frame.

If you are sure you can get a good fit in a stock frame go for it, otherwise, go custom.

[lph]

You can do a lot with a good fitting. I've fit four bikes to my needs without any trouble, but I'm an average size and probably an easy fit. I had never heard of custom builds before I came here, and I would personally not spend my money on a custom. No gripes on anyone who chooses to, and I can see the appeal of a unique bike built for you, but I'm just not that interested in having The Bike. I wrench myself and switch parts as needed. If I had a dream bike I would just go all paranoid about scratching the paint job, or annoyed when parts wore out. Now, if I could spend that kind of money and get a bike where the parts never wore out, or could go without maintenance throughout a winter - THAT would my dream bike!

[SFLiz]

I closely considered custom when I first started riding seriously because I am a tough fit. I went through 2 nice road bikes before I found my dream bike. And it's not custom at all. I've since stopped looking at nice road bikes and fancy frames except to admire them. I don't want them because I love my road bike more than I love my car (and that's saying something!). There are two things that have let me fall in love with my bike: 1) my road bike is unique and I've never seen another one like it in real life and 2) my road bike was as close as I could get to a perfect geometry for me and then I paid a lot of money for a spot-on fit. It rides like a dream and it fits me like a glove.

My road bike is dated. It's a 2005. It runs 9-speed Ultegra. It doesn't have fancy wheels nor is it 'tricked out' at all. It is Ti, but it's painted, so you'd never know unless you rode it (or read the label). But it's unique and it works for my needs 100%. Because of all this, I've stopped looking at other bikes and I can't imagine how any other bike could be better for me. That means, I bought the right bike. It wasn't the most expensive. It wasn't top of the line. And yet, I'm not swayed by those bikes because I love mine so much.

My point is similar to Indy's. The best bike for you is the RIGHT bike for you. Having the best of everything will not guarantee that you won't keep shopping around. And having custom won't guarantee that it'll be the perfect bike for you. It's really a shopping process and I can speak from experience in that when you get it right, it's right and you'll know it!

Thanks GLC1968 - your experience is precisely what I'm concerned about since I actually don't know how a bike is supposed to "feel" when it fits. I mean, the Amira and the Maldone felt like slightly different rides but nonetheless similar. I get the sense that there should be a more comfortable ride for me but I just don't know what that means given the fact that I don't know what I don't know. How do I know what "perfect fit" is supposed to feel like without putting enough time on the saddle to figure out my needs. That takes having a bike already. The hard part is you can't really find a less expensive bike with digital shifting, which is one of the only things I know I really like so far because our rides require lots of shifting - lots of hills. More upright is more comfortable generally but I don't want a ride too upright. This concept of fit and recognizing it when I meet it seems so nebulous to me - I understand it conceptually/theoretically, but I don't want to buy a bike that seems fine only to find something later that slams me in the face as to how "fit" really feels. A test ride on a new bike at LBS only can go so far. A 50-mile bike ride up and down hills is a good test but bike shops don't allow that - I've asked. I dont' even know if I make any sense but I do know I'm reeling in confusion. Thanks for listening.

[tulip]

Custom bikes are nice because they are, well, custom and not exactly like any other bike on the road. There are plenty of very nice stock bikes, too. Need vs. Want is something only you can decide, as is your budget. I would say, though, that just because you start going down the custom road does not mean that you give up all limits. You can get amazing custom bikes without having to pay $10k.

I have ridden bikes for 30 years, all stock until I got my Luna. It's handmade but it's not custom built for me. I bought it from the builder already made, but she said that it's very close to what she would have made for me. It's a dream to ride (it's steel with carbon fork and seat stay). My other bike is a Bike Friday that was built based on my Luna's measurements. My other bikes are stock bikes and they are great. My next bike will be a stock bike, likely a cyclocross bike. Lunas aren't made anymore; if they were, I'd definitely get another one without a second thought

Can't say anything about electronic shifting as I've never tried it.

Ride as many bikes as you can and learn what you like. I think a Seven in titanium would be delightful, but that's just me. Only you can decide what is best for you at this time.

ETA: on second thought, it sounds like you might need some more experience riding before you go all out. Once you ride more, you can decide what's important to you in a bike. Then you'll have more of an idea of what to get in a custom bike.

[SFLiz]

Nice, large bike budget that you have.

I'm a newbie, but my sister has officially given me the title of "bike nerd".

So, my personal opinion is that if you are a very flexible, athletic person that does not have any funky anatomy and if you have tried riding all the brands of bikes that you are interested in and they all fit, then you probably do NOT need to go custom. Get that Ultegra Di2 that you are drooling over along with the better wheelset instead of the Custom bike with lower grade components. Also, since the 2013 are in, a lot of LBS are selling their 2011-2012 bikes at a discount

Big warning....I am a newbie. But I still want to see a bike photo to celebrate with you when you decide.
____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

Thanks TigerMom - for sure, I'll post a photo .... that is, if I am ever able to decide....it feels overwhelming. The more info I gather, the more I wish I never started down this rabbit hole.

Hey, my mom lives in RHts area (Walnut)!!

[tulip]

And remember that there's not only one right answer. There are plenty of bikes out there that will be just fine, not just one. Just go ride some. Fight the analysis paralysis.

[SFLiz]

Custom bikes are nice because they are, well, custom and not exactly like any other bike on the road. There are plenty of very nice stock bikes, too. Need vs. Want is something only you can decide, as is your budget. I would say, though, that just because you start going down the custom road does not mean that you give up all limits. You can get amazing custom bikes without having to pay $10k.

I have ridden bikes for 30 years, all stock until I got my Luna. It's handmade but it's not custom built for me. I bought it from the builder already made, but she said that it's very close to what she would have made for me. It's a dream to ride (it's steel with carbon fork and seat stay). My other bike is a Bike Friday that was built based on my Luna's measurements. My other bikes are stock bikes and they are great. My next bike will be a stock bike, likely a cyclocross bike. Lunas aren't made anymore; if they were, I'd definitely get another one without a second thought

Can't say anything about electronic shifting as I've never tried it.

Ride as many bikes as you can and learn what you like. I think a Seven in titanium would be delightful, but that's just me. Only you can decide what is best for you at this time.

ETA: on second thought, it sounds like you might need some more experience riding before you go all out. Once you ride more, you can decide what's important to you in a bike. Then you'll have more of an idea of what to get in a custom bike.

You hit my dilemma on the nose, Tulip - I realize that I need more experience to know what is my perfect fit, but I don't want to get a suboptimal ride in the meantime... I want to enjoy my weekend rides. I don't want to get some $2000 (which is a lot of money-- ridiculous that $2k now seems like it is suboptimal even before I've bought anything) bike and approach my weekend rides without joy at the prospect of jumping on and tackling the hills. It's a catch-22. I buy a less than optimal bike for my recreational use but then sacrifice on my enjoyment because I feel like I'm struggling up hills/ less smoother / lighter roll than I know I've had on better bikes, and then I have to sell this bike that is supposed to help me develop my understanding of riding. I guess it's all a part of growing as a rider - something we all have to figure out on our own. I just have to figure out how I want to balance my learning curve against my pocket book. Thanks for your astute advice.

[SFLiz]

And remember that there's not only one right answer. There are plenty of bikes out there that will be just fine, not just one. Just go ride some. Fight the analysis paralysis.

Haa haa, nailed it. Do you know me? I am totally a "paralysis by analysis" type of gal, unfortunately. I'm embarrassed to admit that I have a four page excel spreadsheet on bike component research alone, although I haven't updated it last month. Need to do a brain download again. It's bad.