Paleo diet?

[Catrin]

I've decided after my week long experiment going Paleo to try a full 30 day experiment. We shall see, but I was encouraged by differences I saw in just that time period especially where energy levels were concerned.

As far as dark chocolate and red wine (which I don't drink anyway), I like Mark Butler's approach (Mark's Daily Apple and The Primal Blueprint) that these are things that can be enjoyed in moderation. No reason to give up good quality >75% dark chocolate. So I will report back on September 20 to say whether it will change from experiment status or just become part of my lifestyle. My personal crack is good quality ice cream, and that really isn't good for someone who is insulin resistant anyway...

[GLC1968]

I think it's Mark Sisson, isn't it?

Yeah, I kept dark chocolate in my world but found that eventually (it took awhile) even the 75%+ dark stuff would trigger sugar or sweets cravings. Now I find it easier to stick to the plan if I don't eat it, but I still have it occasionally.

Wine doesn't bother me digestively, but it does mess with my sleep patterns so I keep it as a very occasional indulgence as well.

Your experiences/reactions could be completely different from mine.

It's amazing how much one can learn about how their body reacts to certain foods from simple elimination and controlled reintroduction! I feel like a walking science experiment!

[Catrin]

It will be interesting to see how this goes, and I actually rarely eat chocolate. I do like the occasional craft beer and I will have to see if that causes cravings. I find I don't miss bread at all - which is a total surprise! At least not yet...

[westtexas]

Catrin, I'm glad it's going well for you. My current fixation within the Paleosphere is bone broth. I cook some meat in coconut oil or ghee, add it to a simmering pot of bone broth I've already prepared, and then sautee my veggies of choice in the meat drippings/remaining oil. Stick all that on top of some raw baby spinach or kale in a big bowl and pour the broth and meat on top. Yum.

The guy at Whole Foods is always giving me the weirdest look because I'm always buying center cut marrow bones. Once he asked if I had a dog, and I went all veterinarian on him and told him why dogs shouldn't have bones. When I told him it was for bone broth, which is super nutrient rich (especially minerals!), he wigged out.

I eat "weird" food and I love it. I love how it makes me feel, and I'm glad you are finding it works for you too.

[Catrin]

I tried coconut oil this evening for the first time, and I really like it! The jar at Trader Joe's wasn't cheap, but it took so little that I can see it will last for some time.

Bone broth sounds interesting...once I get used to eating beef again. Outside of the grass-fed ground beef I had last week, I've not eaten beef in years. Looking for a grass-fed source that won't break the bank. I succeeded with pasture-raised chicken and ground beef, will likely get some other beef from the same farmer. I just froze the organs/neck from the chicken until I am brave enough/figure out what to do with them.

[GLC1968]

Catrin, I'm glad it's going well for you. My current fixation within the Paleosphere is bone broth. I cook some meat in coconut oil or ghee, add it to a simmering pot of bone broth I've already prepared, and then sautee my veggies of choice in the meat drippings/remaining oil. Stick all that on top of some raw baby spinach or kale in a big bowl and pour the broth and meat on top. Yum.

The guy at Whole Foods is always giving me the weirdest look because I'm always buying center cut marrow bones. Once he asked if I had a dog, and I went all veterinarian on him and told him why dogs shouldn't have bones. When I told him it was for bone broth, which is super nutrient rich (especially minerals!), he wigged out.

I eat "weird" food and I love it. I love how it makes me feel, and I'm glad you are finding it works for you too.

Bone broth is good for the dogs too though, right??

I sometimes pour a little bone broth on their food and they gobble it up. I figure it's good for the dog with the bad hips. When I made my broth, I gave all the leftover veggies to the dogs and boy, did they go crazy for it!

[Catrin]

Oooh, I found a new Paleo food tracking website. It breaks everything down to the nutrient/mineral/etc level. So if you really want to see where the Omega-6 is coming from you can. They are working on a mobile version, and it is apparent it's not be around that long but does allow the addition of new foods/recipes, etc. I am going to give it a shot for awhile.

[westtexas]

Bone broth is good for the dogs too though, right??

I sometimes pour a little bone broth on their food and they gobble it up. I figure it's good for the dog with the bad hips. When I made my broth, I gave all the leftover veggies to the dogs and boy, did they go crazy for it!

I bet it is!! I have been recommending that my clients with dogs with gastrointestinal upset or other illnesses feed them bone broth by syringe when they won't eat. I swear it's what saved my little rescue greyhound from distemper last year.

Catrin - you can use chicken bones just as well as beef/bison bones. I roast whole chickens and chicken thighs in the oven and save the carcass bones and thigh bones in the freezer. When I have a good amount I boil them for about an hour. They don't take as long as the long bones of the ruminants.

[tulip]

Westtexas, why are bones bad for dogs? What about feeding raw diets?

Okay thread hijack. If you are so inclined would you send be a brief pm? I do feed my dog bones (uncooked) occasionally.

[Owlie]

I bet it is!! I have been recommending that my clients with dogs with gastrointestinal upset or other illnesses feed them bone broth by syringe when they won't eat. I swear it's what saved my little rescue greyhound from distemper last year.

Catrin - you can use chicken bones just as well as beef/bison bones. I roast whole chickens and chicken thighs in the oven and save the carcass bones and thigh bones in the freezer. When I have a good amount I boil them for about an hour. They don't take as long as the long bones of the ruminants.

I do that with chicken sometimes too, if I've roasted one. Carcass+wings (because I don't eat them), put in a stock pot, cover with water, boil.

ETA: Excellent in winter for warming the place up.

[PamNY]

Once he asked if I had a dog, and I went all veterinarian on him and told him why dogs shouldn't have bones.

Dogs shouldn't have bones?

I'm sure I'm missing something -- but paleo sounds like BARF for humans.

[Susan]

My current fixation within the Paleosphere is bone broth. I cook some meat in coconut oil or ghee, add it to a simmering pot of bone broth I've already prepared, and then sautee my veggies of choice in the meat drippings/remaining oil. Stick all that on top of some raw baby spinach or kale in a big bowl and pour the broth and meat on top. Yum.

The guy at Whole Foods is always giving me the weirdest look because I'm always buying center cut marrow bones. Once he asked if I had a dog, and I went all veterinarian on him and told him why dogs shouldn't have bones. When I told him it was for bone broth, which is super nutrient rich (especially minerals!), he wigged out.

I eat "weird" food and I love it. I love how it makes me feel, and I'm glad you are finding it works for you too.

Gladly it's not weird to use marrow bones here, you can buy them precut. You can eat the (hot!) cooked marrow with a little salt or use it as spread (ok, eating Paleo you won't do that ) - it's very satiating.
I try to have some bone broth ready as often as possible too. If you whisk 2 eggs in hot broth it makes a very good small meal.

[GLC1968]

If you whisk 2 eggs in hot broth it makes a very good small meal.

Oooh, that sounds like a great idea for a quick snack for my husband (who works from home all day and wants to eat when he gets bored)! Thanks for sharing that, I bet he'd love it!

[westtexas]

Since a couple of y'all asked about the bones thing -

Bones are generally not recommended for dogs because of 1) obstruction and 2) injury. Chicken bones in particular like to splinter and get lodged in funny places like mouths, esophaguses, stomachs and intestines. Although stomach acid theoretically can break down a bone into it's components, too much trouble happens along the way. Large marrow bones like the kind I'm using from buffalo femurs to make broth are very very very hard. These kinds of things break teeth. Also, have you ever met the dog who swallowed rocks or tennis balls? These guys chomp down and swallow all kinds of things that seem like they shouldn't "fit" or go down, but they totally do. Bones just smack of impaction.

Either way, if you break a tooth or get a bone lodged somewhere it shouldn't, you're looking at a lot of money that could be spent elsewhere by simply not giving bones. At my practice, to pull a carnassial tooth (the big molar on top and bottom, commonly fractured from chewing on hard substances) is around $250. This doesn't include the medicine, the anesthesia or the dental cleaning before/after hand. An exploratory laparotomy is going to be about $800, for resection and anastomosis (meaning I have to remove intestinal pieces and put your pet's guts back together in one piece) $1200, minimum.

It's not that bones are "bad". They generally just cause more trouble than they are worth. And in a profession where people consider euthanasia due to financial burdens, us vets strongly recommend prevention when possible.

As far as Paleo being BARF for people - Paleo isn't raw. I'm cooking all my meats (except sushi) and these bones are stewed for 24 hours (they're still hard as a rock, just slightly more porous now from the vinegar I add to the broth). I think raw feeding is actually fine for dogs, if you can get the vitamins/minerals right AND the food safety. Too me, in this crappy food system, nothing is safe and everything should be cooked. That's why foods like EVO (evopet.com - I'm biased, I used to work for the company) exist. It's raw food that isn't raw and it's safe to feed your pet.