Since nearly no one is talking about it...

[lph]

People will always react most strongly to bad things happening to people they identify with, there's just no way around it. And there's no logic in emotional reaction either. It's been one year since the shootings in Norway now. In a way I think that if Breivik had managed to target the muslims he so viciously hates that might have generated more sympathy for them and actually forced white Norwegians to look at how they think and feel. As it is he shot down mostly white Norwegians, most of them kids and teenagers. People can pour out endless amounts of sympathy for the families and swear "it will never happen again" without having to think any uncomfortable thoughts about what lay behind it and how their own viewpoints may tie in with it.

This bugs me. For a year now Norway has been collectively holding hands and holding a very dignified and calm court case over the shooting (and patting our backs about it and being righteous), at the same time there's been a huge debate about maybe two or three hundred dirt poor gypsies who've been camping around in parks in Oslo and being a nuisance. The comments under news articles have been vitriolic, the amount of hatred spewed out is just scary. So much for holding hands and being calm and just.

[Kiwi Stoker]

Most Australians and New Zealanders look at USA and it's gun culture and shake our heads. Shootings and murders by guns are RARE here and that's because we have tight gun control.

The 2nd ammendment has a lot to answer for, especially since the latest shooting was with a hand gun. What next? Metal detectors at movie theatres and religious places? There is no need for people to walk around carrying a gun all the time. Get with the times USA!

[OakLeaf]

Um, we don't need to turn this thread into national chauvinism, either... (and I would point out that the US overall homicide rate is not so different from that of Australia's Northern Territory...)


I don't know, zoom-zoom. Are you referring to your FB friends or to the news sources you subscribe to? We were home and watching on TV as the cops secured the scene but it was a Sunday afternoon, and if it took you that long to hear about it, then it was probably the same for most people you know. I just looked at my FB page and it's true, there are only a couple of reactions to the shooting, but there are also probably no more than 15 postings of any kind since that happened, most of them sports and gardening sites that tend to be among the last to respond to tragedies outside their own communities. Personally, I just don't usually post a tribute over that sort of thing, myself, no matter the scale or the details.

[zoom-zoom]

I don't know, zoom-zoom. Are you referring to your FB friends or to the news sources you subscribe to? We were home and watching on TV as the cops secured the scene but it was a Sunday afternoon, and if it took you that long to hear about it, then it was probably the same for most people you know. I just looked at my FB page and it's true, there are only a couple of reactions to the shooting, but there are also probably no more than 15 postings of any kind since that happened, most of them sports and gardening sites that tend to be among the last to respond to tragedies outside their own communities. Personally, I just don't usually post a tribute over that sort of thing, myself, no matter the scale or the details.

528 friends and after scrolling through the day's posts I found 3 links to news articles. When CO happened my wall blew up with people posting about the horror.

I was nowhere near any media until about 7:30pm, as we did a long-century ride yesterday (with several loops, breaks, people with mechanicals, guy cramping, hills, wind). People were definitely on FB and posting the usual nonsense, but the shootings in WI were essentially ignored. Even the 3 links posted only had a comment or two given.

[lovelygamer]

The right to bear arms goes back to the English militia in the UK, and the mentality of the American Revolution that followed. In the US, we have the right to bear arms, supposedly, to keep our government in check. Among other reasons.

Not that you can see any of this in the Patriot Act.

The people that keep harking to the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms should keep in mind that we don't live in Revolutionary times. Keeping our government in check? Like that is going to happen in our lifetime.

I am ashamed at the lack of gun control in our country. While we are at it, I"m also ashamed at the lack of health care too.

I've traveled the world and yes we have a higher standard of living than most but our idea of "control" is so misguided. Our government controls things we don't NEED them to control and doesn't control things that do need to be controlled.

Just having a higher standard of living doesn't make the US the BEST country in the world. We have to start thinking globally and look at standards across the world in our first world countries.

P.S. Hate is never going to end, anywhere. It is an awful awful situation but I don't know how you can control these hate or terrorist incidents. It is a shame. You know what else is a shame? The news reporter today saying "Sikhism originated in Italy" on a US news network.

PS. I don't want to get involved in a huge debate but just thought I would put my .02 in. Ride on, friends!

[zoom-zoom]

I am ashamed at the lack of gun control in our country. While we are at it, I"m also ashamed at the lack of health care too.

I've traveled the world and yes we have a higher standard of living than most but our idea of "control" is so misguided. Our government controls things we don't NEED them to control and doesn't control things that do need to be controlled.

Just having a higher standard of living doesn't make the US the BEST country in the world. We have to start thinking globally and look at standards across the world in our first world countries.

Actually, I don't think our standard of living is high at all...not when compared to the UK or Scandinavia...countries with universal health care and much lower infant/maternal mortality. We have a helluvalot of people "living" below the poverty line, too. FAR more than a company with our resources should.

[limewave]

Did not even know this happened! But I haven't had the news/tv/radio or been on the net much at all. When I have been online I've been looking for updates on Jakson Kreiser--missing in Glacier Nat'l Park. We have a connection to his family.

I feel like there are so many tragic and scary things going on right now. Zoom-Zoom, even locally the stories we've had about the Good Samaritans being attacked.

Did not mean to get off topic. What is going on in this world? I'm heartbroken for the lost lives and the families/friends left behind in this horrible tragedy in Wisconsin.

[lovelygamer]

Actually, I don't think our standard of living is high at all...not when compared to the UK or Scandinavia...countries with universal health care and much lower infant/maternal mortality. We have a helluvalot of people "living" below the poverty line, too. FAR more than a company with our resources should.

I agree with you. We like to advertise our standard of living is higher than it really is.

[salsabike]

I don't think not talking about it means that people don't care. And quite a lot of people choose to keep their FB posts off politics or other things that in their personal lives they take very seriously.

[Crankin]

Funny, I relate much more to this one. There have been several national or local incidents that have caused my synagogue to hire a police detail. Every year, when I walk in the door for the High Holidays and there are 2-3 Acton police officers standing there, I think of this.
I didn't talk about the Colorado thing with anyone, except DH.

[PamNY]

Funny, I relate much more to this one. There have been several national or local incidents that have caused my synagogue to hire a police detail.

I had a similar reaction, since I have often seen police stationed at houses of worship.

[Koronin]

Since the Olympics have been on, I haven't watched much regular news or really much of anything else at all. However I did watch Rachel Maddow's show tonight and she did a segment on the Wisconsin shootings. So there are some out there trying to cover it.

Would this latest one have been prevented by better mental health care, most likely no. However the VA Tech shooting most likely would have been, Gabriel Gifford's shooting most likely would have been. The Colorado one may or may not have been.

[Trek420]

.... While we are at it, I"m also ashamed at the lack of health care too. ........

PS. I don't want to get involved in a huge debate but just thought I would put my .02 in. Ride on, friends!

I think in all the ongoing talk about health care (and I'm not wishing to turn this into a debate about the Affordable Care act) I just want to say that we need to add to the civil conversation; mental health care IS health care.

So when people lack access to affordable care mental health is part of what's unavailable.

We talk easily about the child with miss-set broken bones or consequences of poor prenatal care, the missed or late diagnosis of cancer. What happens to a veteran under stress who can't get help? Perhaps this. We saw in the Gabby Giffords shooting the family had been trying to get mental health care to the shooter. Same seems to be true in Colorado: the shooter may have fallen off the radar or through the cracks.

We need to remove the stigma of asking for help and make mental health care easily and widely available.

My $0.02. Back to cycling.

[indigoiis]

I honestly think many (myself, for one) are just in shock that this has happened again. What does one say? I thought the Colorado coverage was different only in that there was so much focus on the shooter. Perhaps because he was still alive and "still wasn't finished" i.e. the bomb-laden apartment, etc. In this case, it's just like, egads, again???? Do we really have to endure the stupid rants of the NRA crowd again??? I feel so awful for all of the victims. It is just so terribly tragic and unnecessary. But I will not read the comments in the news stories anymore.

[Koronin]

I've also seen news coverage of it. I'm in the same camp as indigoiis. My first thought was great again.
The Colorado shooting got a lot more after the fact coverage because the shooter is still alive and had an apt full of bombs, which had to be carefully gotten into and diffused. In this case the gunman is dead.
Also this one appears to be more of a hate crime is is much scarier because many times if the person doesn't have access to a gun they will use other ways such as home made bombs which can have even worse outcomes.

Trek420, totally agree about the mental health coverage. It really isn't there. Even if you can get it it's not great. My sister is bi-polar and until she got on medicare really could not get help for her mental disorder.