Paleo diet?

[GLC1968]

DH did make some rocking stuffed peppers last night with ground turkey and spinach. He has a gift for inventing dishes without recipes.

I would kill for a DH that could do that! Actually, mine is excellent with getting creative with eggs, but I think he's lacking confidence in all other culinary areas.

Actually, we don't snack much anymore. Once we were Whole30 for a couple of weeks, we kind of lost interest in eating between meals.

That said, we do have snack-y things around the house because we invariably have to 'grab and go' on occasion.

• Spiced nuts or nuts and coconut flakes combos
• Fruit (we try to not eat *just* fruit for a snack, but combine it with something else, like apples and almond butter or a peach and a couple of meatballs).
• Meatballs (lately I've been making kale meatballs and they are good cold!)
• Baked chicken wings
• sausages (easy to throw on the grill)
• egg muffins (not my favorite, but good in a pinch)
• apple/banana clusters (I can share the recipe)
• guacamole and veggies (carrots, cukes, celery, mushrooms, peppers, etc)
• meat/veggie roll ups (veggies and either quac or paleo mayo rolled in a piece of turkey meat)
• tuna or sardines mixed with guacamole or hunks of avocado
• bacon-wrapped, almond stuffed, dates (a little high in sugar, but good if you can control yourself around them!)
• kale or zucchini chips (made in the dehydrator - or oven)
• sweet potato or beet chips (baked)

We also almost always make extra of any veggie we cook whether it's grilled, sauteed, or roasted and keep those in the fridge too. Oh, and hardboiled eggs are a good option if you like them (I still can't get myself to eat hard boiled egg yolks!).

[Owlie]

If anyone's got links to peer-reviewed studies for some of this stuff, that would be awesome. It makes sense that dairy-derived calcium and plant-derived calcium would be absorbed differently. I'd have to go a little deeper into the chemistry and what's bound to what, though.

I don't mean to be snarky, and if it works for you, keep on doing what you're doing, but:
I know I do better on a lower-carb, higher-fat/protein diet (which is why I don't eat pasta without some meat in it, among other things), but I have intellectual difficulty with the idea that one should cut out whole food groups without a good reason (allergy or they make your digestive system unhappy). Especially considering that, with the exception of dairy, you're eliminating food groups that people all over the world have been eating for generations with no apparent issues. (I'm thinking beans and grains.)
No, the Standard American Diet isn't the healthiest, but I'm not sure that rejecting whole groups of food is a great idea either.

[GLC1968]

No, the Standard American Diet isn't the healthiest, but I'm not sure that rejecting whole groups of food is a great idea either.

The more moderate approach to this isn't that grains are bad necessarily, it's just that because of some of the mechanisms in grains (ie, a grain will not grow once it's been chewed and digested, so they have components to protect them from that happening so that they can survive), they aren't the best choice. Even if you look at all the vitamins and 'good things' in whole grains, the reality is that a lot of that good stuff is not bioavailable to your body. If your body can get all the same good stuff from veggies (and more), why bother with grains? It's not unlike choosing to eat home-grown organic spinach over iceberg lettuce from McDonalds. Both are considered food, but the spinach is SOOOO much better for you, why wouldn't you choose it over the lettuce option? Taste? Perhaps. But I can attest that it doesn't take long to stop caring about eating grains when you feel this good without them.

Again, there are lots of places on this planet where the only choice for food is grains and certainly, eating grains is better than not eating at all. The point is that grains (and legumes, and in some cases, dairy) are not the BEST option.

In my case, I felt totally fine (and even healthy) before I went paleo. I only did it out of curiosity, not out of need. What continues to shock me to the core is how much BETTER I feel eating this way.

I don't have my copy of ISWF here at work, or I could find the studies and post links. There may be links to some of them at their website/blog:

http://whole9life.com/

Another good online resource is Mark Sisson's blog. He does a lot of research and isn't one to spout off 'caveman' ideals...you may be able to find the relevant research on his site as well (though his definition of 'primal' does include some dairy):

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/welco...#axzz22VSN3YDS

[Tri Girl]

I LOVE Mark Sisson's blog!!
I used to be of the idea that eliminating ENTIRE food groups was not only silly, but nutritionally irresponsible. And look at me now- 8 months later and I've totally eliminated meat and dairy.

My reason was for my health. My cholesterol was off the charts and my doc wanted to put me on statins b/c of my strong family history of early death from heart disease (I'm only 39, and being on statins scares the crap out of me for many reasons). I tried this as a last-ditch effort to clean up the cardiovascular system. My cholesterol has dropped 60 pts purely from dietary changes and I'm out of the risky group now. I still have moderately high blood pressure, but I'm working on that by losing weight.

I went through a phase where I severerly cut back on grains/carbs but that didn't bode well for my athletic adventures.

You're so right when you say every body has a diet that works for them. I have 1 paleo friend who constantly sends me articles/literature disproving a vegan diet and proving paleo is the right way. Whatevs. It works for me, so I'm sticking with it. What works for you, stick with it.
I also have another friend who is paleo, but sends me recipes all the time that I can make vegan that are SOOOO delicious!! She knows I can adapt them, and they have all be incredibly scrumptious!!!

If you ladies want to share recipes, here, please do. I would love to see what you're eating and adapt it for me.
I'm very interested in the science behind both paleo and vegan. I think both are scientifically sound (how that's possible- I don't know). I love learning about all healthier eating plans, and I tend to get meal ideas from so many different sources.

[Veronica]

I think both are scientifically sound (how that's possible- I don't know). I love learning about all healthier eating plans, and I tend to get meal ideas from so many different sources.

I think that it's because even though we're the same species we are different.

It's like my cats - one got super obese and lethargic on dry food when he was less than a year old. The other one can eat anything and she's super healthy. Same species - but something is different.

Veronica

[GLC1968]

I'm very interested in the science behind both paleo and vegan. I think both are scientifically sound (how that's possible- I don't know). I love learning about all healthier eating plans, and I tend to get meal ideas from so many different sources.

I totally agree. I mean, I've seen so many people who are thriving on a vegan diet that I can't help but accept that it clearly works for some people. (I assume I'll get tossed out of the cave-world for saying such blasphemy!)

Really, vegan and paleo both promote the eating of WHOLE FOODS over anything processed and a ton of vegetable/plant matter, so that's a huge start down the road to health, no matter how you look at it. The real debate would be grains/beans vs meat, and really, it is very much individual.

I get equally annoyed with the paleo-police who freak out about what others eat or don't eat as I do with those who would throw paleo people under the nutritional bus for choosing not to eat grains. I mean, why is it generally accepted that it is super healthy to eliminate meat from one's diet but it's considered insane to talk about eliminating grains? The arguments are the same....just from different viewpoints, right?

And yes, in case anyone wants to pull up any of my earlier posts on paleo to throw that 'paleo-police' comment back in my face, I've mellowed quite a bit after a year of doing this. I know I was super gung-ho in the beginning but I've done a lot of research and experimentation (and growing) since then.

[Veronica]

GLC I've always thought you were one of the more sane paleo people. Seriously, what I get out of your posts is how thrilled you are with how it's working for you.

Veronica

[Owlie]

The more moderate approach to this isn't that grains are bad necessarily, it's just that because of some of the mechanisms in grains (ie, a grain will not grow once it's been chewed and digested, so they have components to protect them from that happening so that they can survive), they aren't the best choice. Even if you look at all the vitamins and 'good things' in whole grains, the reality is that a lot of that good stuff is not bioavailable to your body. If your body can get all the same good stuff from veggies (and more), why bother with grains? It's not unlike choosing to eat home-grown organic spinach over iceberg lettuce from McDonalds. Both are considered food, but the spinach is SOOOO much better for you, why wouldn't you choose it over the lettuce option? Taste? Perhaps. But I can attest that it doesn't take long to stop caring about eating grains when you feel this good without them.

Again, there are lots of places on this planet where the only choice for food is grains and certainly, eating grains is better than not eating at all. The point is that grains (and legumes, and in some cases, dairy) are not the BEST option.

In my case, I felt totally fine (and even healthy) before I went paleo. I only did it out of curiosity, not out of need. What continues to shock me to the core is how much BETTER I feel eating this way.

I don't have my copy of ISWF here at work, or I could find the studies and post links. There may be links to some of them at their website/blog:

http://whole9life.com/

Another good online resource is Mark Sisson's blog. He does a lot of research and isn't one to spout off 'caveman' ideals...you may be able to find the relevant research on his site as well (though his definition of 'primal' does include some dairy):

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/welco...#axzz22VSN3YDS

I noticed the end of your last post after I posted.

Playing the devil's advocate here:
But the average leafy vegetable doesn't want to be eaten either, and there are all sorts of anti-herbivore compounds in those. Why is one better than the other?

I'm pretty sure that most of the benefits of whole grain comes from the fact that fiber just binds all the fat and a lot of other stuff in your intestine. And it doesn't surprise me that there's a bioavailability issue for certain compounds. But that should be true to one extent or another for any plant-based food... I'm also curious as to how it would work for fueling intense exercise--for me, fruit/veggie-derived carbs get burned off quickly. Maybe it's psychosomatic, but a combination of grain- and fruit-based carbs sticks around a bit longer for me.

I know you don't think this way, and I thank you for it, but I for one am a little tired of "Eliminating grains and dairy will solve all your problems!" I've had eczema issues since I was two. It isn't caused by diet; it's stress. Provided I ride my bike or get other intense exercise on a regular basis, it's a non-issue. And yet people (not here) still say that I should stop drinking milk or eating toast.

Anyway, I'll stop bringing my own issues into the discussion. I'm not anti-Paleo, just skeptical. I'm an everything-in-moderation kind of person--veggies, beans, beef, beer and cheesecake. If it works for you, great! If you think you have something to gain from it, try it and tweak it.

And as always, if someone has a tasty recipe, feel free to share. I'm always up for new food.

Not trying to attack you, I swear.

[Owlie]

Really, vegan and paleo both promote the eating of WHOLE FOODS over anything processed and a ton of vegetable/plant matter, so that's a huge start down the road to health, no matter how you look at it. The real debate would be grains/beans vs meat, and really, it is very much individual.

^That, I totally agree with. And I really could use some more veg in my diet.

I suspect a diet higher in meat and fruit/veggies and somewhat lower in grains (I don't do much dairy outside milk on my cereal and in my tea/coffee and a small amount of cheese, maybe the occasional quarter-cup of ice cream) would do well for me, with more grain on long ride days. It's so individual that it's impossible to say that any particular diet would work for any given person.

I'll get out of the pool now. But GLC, do you have a recipe for that curry you mentioned in the "What did you eat today?" thread?

[GLC1968]

I noticed the end of your last post after I posted.

Playing the devil's advocate here:
But the average leafy vegetable doesn't want to be eaten either, and there are all sorts of anti-herbivore compounds in those. Why is one better than the other?

I'm pretty sure that most of the benefits of whole grain comes from the fact that fiber just binds all the fat and a lot of other stuff in your intestine. And it doesn't surprise me that there's a bioavailability issue for certain compounds. But that should be true to one extent or another for any plant-based food... I'm also curious as to how it would work for fueling intense exercise--for me, fruit/veggie-derived carbs get burned off quickly. Maybe it's psychosomatic, but a combination of grain- and fruit-based carbs sticks around a bit longer for me.

I know you don't think this way, and I thank you for it, but I for one am a little tired of "Eliminating grains and dairy will solve all your problems!" I've had eczema issues since I was two. It isn't caused by diet; it's stress. Provided I ride my bike or get other intense exercise on a regular basis, it's a non-issue. And yet people (not here) still say that I should stop drinking milk or eating toast.

Anyway, I'll stop bringing my own issues into the discussion. I'm not anti-Paleo, just skeptical. I'm an everything-in-moderation kind of person--veggies, beans, beef, beer and cheesecake. If it works for you, great! If you think you have something to gain from it, try it and tweak it.

And as always, if someone has a tasty recipe, feel free to share. I'm always up for new food.

Not trying to attack you, I swear.

Nope, I totally get where you are coming from! A year ago, I might have felt like you were jumping all over my nerves on this one, but I've definitely mellowed.

Generally, veggies have more fiber than whole grains too. I think the idea is that there is nothing in whole grains that you cannot get from vegetables, so we don't NEED them. Even the starches (which is the part that is utilized for fueling workouts) can be gotten from other types of plant matter (like potatoes or root veggies or fruits). I fuel best with these anyway, and they don't ever cause me digestive distress like some of the grains do.

I saw a comparison in a blog somewhere (I'll see if I can find it) where the person compared the soluble fiber content of oatmeal (said to improve cholesterol) with the fiber content of spinach (I think it was spinach!) and how it would work way better than oats but no one would buy eating a bowl of spinach for breakfast. Plus, oats have lobbyists!

Granted, there are a lot of things to be said for the taste, social aspect, and enjoyment of eating grains and most paleo proponents accept this as a fact and expect that no one will be 100% strict 100% of the time.

[Owlie]

Nope, I totally get where you are coming from! A year ago, I might have felt like you were jumping all over my nerves on this one, but I've definitely mellowed.

Generally, veggies have more fiber than whole grains too. I think the idea is that there is nothing in whole grains that you cannot get from vegetables, so we don't NEED them. Even the starches (which is the part that is utilized for fueling workouts) can be gotten from other types of plant matter (like potatoes or root veggies or fruits). I fuel best with these anyway, and they don't ever cause me digestive distress like some of the grains do.

I saw a comparison in a blog somewhere (I'll see if I can find it) where the person compared the soluble fiber content of oatmeal (said to improve cholesterol) with the fiber content of spinach (I think it was spinach!) and how it would work way better than oats but no one would buy eating a bowl of spinach for breakfast. Plus, oats have lobbyists!

Granted, there are a lot of things to be said for the taste, social aspect, and enjoyment of eating grains and most paleo proponents accept this as a fact and expect that no one will be 100% strict 100% of the time.

You finished my train of thought on the oatmeal matter. But I didn't need the "spinach for breakfast" image. Gross! (It would be acceptable as baby spinach in an omelet, though. I definitely pictured the limp dark green frozen stuff.)

[Crankin]

Well, I eat *almost* no high glycemic carbs; no white rice, potatoes, and only occasional white bread (of the very high quality, bakery type) in a restaurant, no pastries, a little bit of soft serve ice cream in the summer. I cut down on some fruits and added in a lot more veggies. It's hard for my very sensitive stomach to digest the veggies. I eat a lot more fish now, too.
Since June, I've added some whole wheat bagels back in, as well as an occasional Luna Bar. I eat lots of nuts for snacks, but I need more than that right now.

[Tri Girl]

But I didn't need the "spinach for breakfast" image. Gross! (It would be acceptable as baby spinach in an omelet, though. I definitely pictured the limp dark green frozen stuff.)

LOL
I have been known to eat sauteed veggies (sauteed in water) for breakfast- a mix of zucchini, squash, mushrooms, peppers, onions, and fresh baby spinach. My hubs just rolls his eyes at me. He's SO not vegan (or even vegetarian for that matter).

[goldfinch]

If anyone's got links to peer-reviewed studies for some of this stuff, that would be awesome. It makes sense that dairy-derived calcium and plant-derived calcium would be absorbed differently. I'd have to go a little deeper into the chemistry and what's bound to what, though.

I don't mean to be snarky, and if it works for you, keep on doing what you're doing, but:
I know I do better on a lower-carb, higher-fat/protein diet (which is why I don't eat pasta without some meat in it, among other things), but I have intellectual difficulty with the idea that one should cut out whole food groups without a good reason (allergy or they make your digestive system unhappy). Especially considering that, with the exception of dairy, you're eliminating food groups that people all over the world have been eating for generations with no apparent issues. (I'm thinking beans and grains.)
No, the Standard American Diet isn't the healthiest, but I'm not sure that rejecting whole groups of food is a great idea either.

There isn't good evidence that whole grains, low-fat dairy, and legumes should be eliminated from a typical person's diet.

[GLC1968]

But GLC, do you have a recipe for that curry you mentioned in the "What did you eat today?" thread?

I totally missed this the first time I read this thread! I don't really have a curry recipe as I usually just mix some coconut milk (the canned kind) in with a curry paste (store bought) until I get the consistency and spice level I like, then I pour it over heated veggies and cooked chicken. The thai pumpkin curry I mentioned is actually from a local thai place though!