Paleo diet?

[Owlie]

The more moderate approach to this isn't that grains are bad necessarily, it's just that because of some of the mechanisms in grains (ie, a grain will not grow once it's been chewed and digested, so they have components to protect them from that happening so that they can survive), they aren't the best choice. Even if you look at all the vitamins and 'good things' in whole grains, the reality is that a lot of that good stuff is not bioavailable to your body. If your body can get all the same good stuff from veggies (and more), why bother with grains? It's not unlike choosing to eat home-grown organic spinach over iceberg lettuce from McDonalds. Both are considered food, but the spinach is SOOOO much better for you, why wouldn't you choose it over the lettuce option? Taste? Perhaps. But I can attest that it doesn't take long to stop caring about eating grains when you feel this good without them.

Again, there are lots of places on this planet where the only choice for food is grains and certainly, eating grains is better than not eating at all. The point is that grains (and legumes, and in some cases, dairy) are not the BEST option.

In my case, I felt totally fine (and even healthy) before I went paleo. I only did it out of curiosity, not out of need. What continues to shock me to the core is how much BETTER I feel eating this way.

I don't have my copy of ISWF here at work, or I could find the studies and post links. There may be links to some of them at their website/blog:

http://whole9life.com/

Another good online resource is Mark Sisson's blog. He does a lot of research and isn't one to spout off 'caveman' ideals...you may be able to find the relevant research on his site as well (though his definition of 'primal' does include some dairy):

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/welco...#axzz22VSN3YDS

I noticed the end of your last post after I posted.

Playing the devil's advocate here:
But the average leafy vegetable doesn't want to be eaten either, and there are all sorts of anti-herbivore compounds in those. Why is one better than the other?

I'm pretty sure that most of the benefits of whole grain comes from the fact that fiber just binds all the fat and a lot of other stuff in your intestine. And it doesn't surprise me that there's a bioavailability issue for certain compounds. But that should be true to one extent or another for any plant-based food... I'm also curious as to how it would work for fueling intense exercise--for me, fruit/veggie-derived carbs get burned off quickly. Maybe it's psychosomatic, but a combination of grain- and fruit-based carbs sticks around a bit longer for me.

I know you don't think this way, and I thank you for it, but I for one am a little tired of "Eliminating grains and dairy will solve all your problems!" I've had eczema issues since I was two. It isn't caused by diet; it's stress. Provided I ride my bike or get other intense exercise on a regular basis, it's a non-issue. And yet people (not here) still say that I should stop drinking milk or eating toast.

Anyway, I'll stop bringing my own issues into the discussion. I'm not anti-Paleo, just skeptical. I'm an everything-in-moderation kind of person--veggies, beans, beef, beer and cheesecake. If it works for you, great! If you think you have something to gain from it, try it and tweak it.

And as always, if someone has a tasty recipe, feel free to share. I'm always up for new food.

Not trying to attack you, I swear.

[GLC1968]

I noticed the end of your last post after I posted.

Playing the devil's advocate here:
But the average leafy vegetable doesn't want to be eaten either, and there are all sorts of anti-herbivore compounds in those. Why is one better than the other?

I'm pretty sure that most of the benefits of whole grain comes from the fact that fiber just binds all the fat and a lot of other stuff in your intestine. And it doesn't surprise me that there's a bioavailability issue for certain compounds. But that should be true to one extent or another for any plant-based food... I'm also curious as to how it would work for fueling intense exercise--for me, fruit/veggie-derived carbs get burned off quickly. Maybe it's psychosomatic, but a combination of grain- and fruit-based carbs sticks around a bit longer for me.

I know you don't think this way, and I thank you for it, but I for one am a little tired of "Eliminating grains and dairy will solve all your problems!" I've had eczema issues since I was two. It isn't caused by diet; it's stress. Provided I ride my bike or get other intense exercise on a regular basis, it's a non-issue. And yet people (not here) still say that I should stop drinking milk or eating toast.

Anyway, I'll stop bringing my own issues into the discussion. I'm not anti-Paleo, just skeptical. I'm an everything-in-moderation kind of person--veggies, beans, beef, beer and cheesecake. If it works for you, great! If you think you have something to gain from it, try it and tweak it.

And as always, if someone has a tasty recipe, feel free to share. I'm always up for new food.

Not trying to attack you, I swear.

Nope, I totally get where you are coming from! A year ago, I might have felt like you were jumping all over my nerves on this one, but I've definitely mellowed.

Generally, veggies have more fiber than whole grains too. I think the idea is that there is nothing in whole grains that you cannot get from vegetables, so we don't NEED them. Even the starches (which is the part that is utilized for fueling workouts) can be gotten from other types of plant matter (like potatoes or root veggies or fruits). I fuel best with these anyway, and they don't ever cause me digestive distress like some of the grains do.

I saw a comparison in a blog somewhere (I'll see if I can find it) where the person compared the soluble fiber content of oatmeal (said to improve cholesterol) with the fiber content of spinach (I think it was spinach!) and how it would work way better than oats but no one would buy eating a bowl of spinach for breakfast. Plus, oats have lobbyists!

Granted, there are a lot of things to be said for the taste, social aspect, and enjoyment of eating grains and most paleo proponents accept this as a fact and expect that no one will be 100% strict 100% of the time.

[Owlie]

Nope, I totally get where you are coming from! A year ago, I might have felt like you were jumping all over my nerves on this one, but I've definitely mellowed.

Generally, veggies have more fiber than whole grains too. I think the idea is that there is nothing in whole grains that you cannot get from vegetables, so we don't NEED them. Even the starches (which is the part that is utilized for fueling workouts) can be gotten from other types of plant matter (like potatoes or root veggies or fruits). I fuel best with these anyway, and they don't ever cause me digestive distress like some of the grains do.

I saw a comparison in a blog somewhere (I'll see if I can find it) where the person compared the soluble fiber content of oatmeal (said to improve cholesterol) with the fiber content of spinach (I think it was spinach!) and how it would work way better than oats but no one would buy eating a bowl of spinach for breakfast. Plus, oats have lobbyists!

Granted, there are a lot of things to be said for the taste, social aspect, and enjoyment of eating grains and most paleo proponents accept this as a fact and expect that no one will be 100% strict 100% of the time.

You finished my train of thought on the oatmeal matter. But I didn't need the "spinach for breakfast" image. Gross! (It would be acceptable as baby spinach in an omelet, though. I definitely pictured the limp dark green frozen stuff.)

[Tri Girl]

But I didn't need the "spinach for breakfast" image. Gross! (It would be acceptable as baby spinach in an omelet, though. I definitely pictured the limp dark green frozen stuff.)

LOL
I have been known to eat sauteed veggies (sauteed in water) for breakfast- a mix of zucchini, squash, mushrooms, peppers, onions, and fresh baby spinach. My hubs just rolls his eyes at me. He's SO not vegan (or even vegetarian for that matter).

[Owlie]

LOL
I have been known to eat sauteed veggies (sauteed in water) for breakfast- a mix of zucchini, squash, mushrooms, peppers, onions, and fresh baby spinach. My hubs just rolls his eyes at me. He's SO not vegan (or even vegetarian for that matter).

That would leave me really, really hungry. (I'm a carnivore. Bacon for breakfast!)

So, GLC, and other paleo people, I'm curious. What do you do for on-the-bike/run fuel, especially if you're one of those people who have a hard time with "real food" while riding/running?

[GLC1968]

Throw a little sausage (or bacon) into that veggie scramble and you've got a good breakfast for me!

Owlie, since I've been super strict paleo, I haven't done any endurance workouts of any type, so I'm not sure what I'd do. When I was paleo last fall and running a lot, I'd have sweet potatoes or even regular potatoes the meal before long runs or races and then I'd do close to the same, afterward. I actually really liked to splurge on OJ after workouts figuring the sugar spike would probably be ok for me and I love me some fresh OJ!

During long runs, I would stray from paleo and supplement with gels. Now, I'm not sure I'd continue to do that as I've found some really awesome, portable, real food baby foods that I may use. They are just pureed fruits and veggies and if I stick to the starchier ones (like the ones using winter squash) I bet they would make great, portable run/ride food. I haven't tried this though!

Oh, and real portable fruit (like grapes or melon) and even dried fruit make great ride food that is easy to digest. It wouldn't work for me on runs though where I cannot really digest real food.

[Tri Girl]

That would leave me really, really hungry. (I'm a carnivore. Bacon for breakfast!)

I usually add some tofu if I have some, or some facon (vegan bacon).
Both are highly processed, but sometimes I want protein that's not in bean form.

[westtexas]

So, GLC, and other paleo people, I'm curious. What do you do for on-the-bike/run fuel, especially if you're one of those people who have a hard time with "real food" while riding/running?

I honestly don't eat anything. Since going Paleo, I don't get that intense carb craving at hour 1. I always carry something, just in case, and I use Kind bars (the macademia nut and coconut or almond and apricot). You have to remember though that even a thin person has 10k calories of fat hanging around on their bodies that when you are adapted to living of it, you can access easily and steadily no matter your need.

Since last year, before I ride, I simply have a cup of coffee. And when I get home, I take a shower. And when I get hungry - be it right then or hours later - I eat something. I just eat when I'm hungry and I don't when I'm not. It's so easy.

[Owlie]

I honestly don't eat anything. Since going Paleo, I don't get that intense carb craving at hour 1. I always carry something, just in case, and I use Kind bars (the macademia nut and coconut or almond and apricot). You have to remember though that even a thin person has 10k calories of fat hanging around on their bodies that when you are adapted to living of it, you can access easily and steadily no matter your need.

Since last year, before I ride, I simply have a cup of coffee. And when I get home, I take a shower. And when I get hungry - be it right then or hours later - I eat something. I just eat when I'm hungry and I don't when I'm not. It's so easy.

Makes sense. You and my SO are sort of the same. While he's not paleo, he can just go ride for 20 miles without eating anything. Anything longer, he does have to eat. I can't fathom leaving the house without breakfast! I must not be terribly efficient at accessing fat stores. Hey, adrenal glands! Get with the program!