Recommendations for a small touring bike

[Crankin]

I have nothing against 650 wheels, I had them on my Trek. But Guru (the company that built my ti bike) didn't seem to think I needed them. The wheels don't look too big for my bike. Only once did I notice toe overlap, when I was making the very sharp turn, uphill into my driveway. It scared me to death, but now I just approach the turn differently. I have 700 wheels on my carbon bike (48 cm unisex frame, with a lot of short reach things on it) and didn't notice any difference when I switched to that bike from my Trek 5200 with the smaller wheels. I do have 25cm tires on the ti bike, which makes it a bit smoother and I could put 28s on there, if I wanted to. The geometry on my ti bike is much more relaxed than the carbon one, so the bike looks bigger, even though the measurements are smaller, if that makes sense. I actually don't like being quite so upright, but I just need to switch the position of the bars a bit.

[Kathi]

I have nothing against 650 wheels, I had them on my Trek. But Guru (the company that built my ti bike) didn't seem to think I needed them. The wheels don't look too big for my bike. Only once did I notice toe overlap, when I was making the very sharp turn, uphill into my driveway. It scared me to death, but now I just approach the turn differently. I have 700 wheels on my carbon bike (48 cm unisex frame, with a lot of short reach things on it) and didn't notice any difference when I switched to that bike from my Trek 5200 with the smaller wheels. I do have 25cm tires on the ti bike, which makes it a bit smoother and I could put 28s on there, if I wanted to. The geometry on my ti bike is much more relaxed than the carbon one, so the bike looks bigger, even though the measurements are smaller, if that makes sense. I actually don't like being quite so upright, but I just need to switch the position of the bars a bit.

I'm curious, how does one do relaxed geometry on a small frame? I have the impression that relaxed geometry has a slack sta. but when I was out riding today I noticed a woman riding with a more upright position. Is that what you consider relaxed in spite of the position of the sta. My neighbor rides a hybred so he's in a very upright position.

For example, back in the old days the shop would put my handlebars in a very low position. They were so low that when I rode in my drops my thigh hit my boobs. I almost never rode in my drops. I would consider that an aggressive position. But it wasn't a good position for me. With my custom frame I have a longer ht than you would find on a stock frame but I'm in a neutral position, not high, not low. So is that a relaxed geometry or aggressive geometry? My front end is designed so I can raise or lower my handlebars by switching the spacers or stem. I will not, however, be able to go as high as a hybred.

I once tried a small touring bike that was custom designed for a woman my size. It had a slack sta but it was terrible for me. I felt like I was riding a recumbent because I wasn't centered over the pedals. Of course the bike wasn't fitted to me but I doubt the saddle could have been moved forward enough.

My saddle is as far forward as it can go, even with a 74.8 degree sta and a zero degree seat post so I'm pretty sure I can't go slacker, like 72.5 degree sta.

So based on the fact that certain aspects of geometry cannot change for me I'm confused as to what you did to get a relaxed geometry on your bike.

[featuretile]

I just did a tour where the baggage was carried for us and I used my roadbike - Specialized Ruby Comp. That works just fine.

I have also done tours on my Bike Friday Crusoe, and that is the bike I take when I fly or if I just want to be able to stick it in the back of my car on any trip. And I bought a Xootr CrossRack if I ever go credit card touring: http://www.xootr.com/crossrack-bike-rack.html With the cost of shipping a bike, it might make sense to get a Friday, which they do make small enough for you. I am also 5'2".

[Crankin]

OK, well, I am not so technical, but from my ignorant standpoint, both the seat tube and head tube on the Guru are taller than on my carbon bike, which is because on the carbon bike, they were essentially making the bike fit me, if that makes sense. I have hardly any stem showing on the carbon bike, and on the Guru, it looks, well, normal. I have my bars exactly even with my saddle on my carbon bike. They are a little above the saddle on the Guru, which I need to change. When I had the fitting (very extensive, on the Guru fitting system), he started out with it very upright; I kept saying "no, lower," until it felt OK. Then, after the bike arrived, I still had him change the position, based on being on the trainer. I think the fact that I said this bike is going to be used for long, hilly rides on tours/trips and my age made him want to put me more upright, but we compromised.
One of my issues is that while my Kuota may not be exactly right for me, I am used to it. I have a lot of issues with changing to anything new and I am not particularly adept at handling these changes, despite years of riding. In fact, what really made me want a custom bike with couplers was my experience with my rented Orbea in Spain, on a tour. It was a 48 cm unisex frame, with a triple, just like my Kuota, but the bars were too wide and it didn't have the short reach brifters. I could barely ride the thing and it caused quite a lot of anxiety the first 2 days. On previous tours, I either had my own bike or a Trek Madone exactly like the one I had.
My first 10-15 or so rides on the Guru were hell, starting with just starting off to get on the saddle. I definitely have to push myself up higher to get on the saddle (realized that after the first ride when I alost impaled myself by catching my shorts and bum on the saddle), as the bike just feels "higher up" and bigger, even though it fits perfectly. It is the different geometry that felt weird to me, if this makes sense, and I don't do well with differences. I found myself shaking and often feeling like I was having difficulty keeping a straight line in the beginning of rides. But, one day it just "clicked," and as long I remember that I have to think about getting on the saddle and pushing off, I absolutely love the feel of this bike. If you put my 2 bikes next to each other, the Kuota looks little compared the Guru, but both fit me.

[Kathi]

I'm not that technical either so when someone talks "relaxed" vs "aggressive" geometry I'm not sure what it means. I suppose the wheelbase determines some of that too. I remember reading about sta having to do with it but your body is what it is and I don't see that changing much. I suppose larger riders have more options than smaller riders.

When I got my custom frame I had an ahhhhh feeling, my body just settled right in. I had been on poor fitting bikes for so long I really had no idea what a good fit was all about. At first I thought I was too stretched out but the handling was so much better and the ride was so smooth. The fit was so perfect I changed nothing for several years. Due to back and hip pain I changed to the Specialized Ruby saddle and got rid of my orthotics which meant smaller shoes and an adjustment on the saddle, but nothing has been changed with handlebar height, etc.

I recently took my Aegis CF to my fitter to have the fit adjusted and he told me the cockpit was too small for me. I only use this bike on the trainer, haven't ridden it outside since I've had my Serotta so my fitter thinks I should sell it.

I don't remember much about my fitting but my fitter used the Serotta size cycle. He started with the setup of my Aegis and then made adjustments until I felt right. When I saw him last month he told me I had the perfect riding position on the bike and he wished all his riders sat as well as I do.

I don't consider the geometry on my bike relaxed or aggressive. Probably neutral or "me" geometry which is why I asked.

[Crankin]

After all of my experiences with bikes, I have come to the conclusion that I will never have that "aha" moment. I have never felt "at one" with any bike, but I suspect that part of it is my own issues of balance and coordination. My fitting was very similar to what you describe, except on the Guru simulator. We were close to going with Serotta, since they are local, but our shop started working with Guru, so we did that. My DS has a steel Serotta, from 2001, that was originally my other son's racing bike. It is a beautiful bike and he often gets compliments on it.
Yes, the difference between my 2 bikes is the longer wheelbase on the Guru. I am sure that I might be told that the cockpit on my Kuota is too small, but I love that feeling!

[Kathi]

Does your shop still sell Serotta's? I hear that due to Serotta's restructuring there are only 30 shops in the country that now carry them. My fitter is the head Serotta trainer for the Serotta SICI fit school. My fitter in Cincy is also an SICI fit trainer.

BTW, I just got a nasty chip on the TT. Six years and no scratches. I'm devasted but trying not to think about it.

You can also see why I insisted on 650c wheels. The frame is an Ottrott (carbon/ti) and for what I paid for it I didn't want any compromises.

[Crankin]

It wasn't the shop that I bought both of my bikes from that we were going to use for the Serottas. It's a shop in a neighboring town that sells Serottas and a weird mix of townie and commuter bikes. It was started by former Serotta employees, I think. Our son's Serotta came from one of the largest shops in the area, but I don't think they sell them anymore. His was not custom, though.
Funny, I don't get upset about scratches on my bikes. My Kuota has a few from crashes or getting shoved into the back of my last car. They aren't highly visible, but I just figure it's wear and tear.
However, I did just buy a station wagon so the Guru fits nicely in the back.

[Jacquot]

For example, back in the old days the shop would put my handlebars in a very low position. They were so low that when I rode in my drops my thigh hit my boobs.

When I had the drivetrain replaced on my 1987 Miyata touring bike (still going strong), I had the cranks replaced with 165 mm ones. Why some manufacturers still equip their smallest frames with 170 mm cranks, I don't know. My knees no longer contact my chest when I'm in the drops and my knees like the reduced range of motion too.

Like Jezbael, my Miyata is technically too big for me (I can't straddle the top tube) but the fit is just fine when I'm riding. There's just enough seat post exposed for the strap from my tool bag. It is comfortable enough to do 60-80 km days carrying camping gear. I haven't done longer trips lately but DH and I used to do 100 km in a day.

FWIW, if I hadn't had the drivetrain replaced, I would have replaced the bike with a small LHT. But I wouldn't have been able to part with the first really good bike I ever bought.

Jacquie

[Hartmame]

I'm 5'4" and ride a 46cm Surely LHT. Get a fit done if possible Surly fit is a large feeling. I think I would ride a 48-50cm in a regular road bike.

[happyscientist]

Hello everyone. I have posted in that general introduction thread but am new to these forums. Over the last year and a half, I have become thoroughly addicted to roadbiking and am the obnoxious person who feels better at the end of a century than the beginning. Next year, I want to start doing fully supported tours, and do unsupported tours after that. I have an overwhelming desire to just ride my bike and camp. So I started looking into touring bikes. At 5'4", my options are limited, but I was thinking about saving up my money and going with a custom made Seven or IF in 2014.
For those of you who have custom made bikes, do you have experience with either of these brands?

[emily_in_nc]

There's a Bike Friday New World Tourist (size Small) for sale on this forum that might work for you. We used our Bike Friday Pocket Crusoes for a long unsupported tour in 2004 and have since used them for many utility rides to the markets. You're not that short at 5'4", so I am not sure that you need to go custom.

Here's a link to our bike tour report if you want to see Bike Fridays in action on an unsupported, fully loaded tour:

http://travelingtwosome.weebly.com/n...tour-2004.html

Good luck!

[happyscientist]

Well, there is a difference between need and want. I have fallen in love with the idea of a custom made bike.