LBS and womens bikes

[moderncyclista]

The saleperson, who is wonderful, said they just don't stock them because there isn't much demand for them.

*beginning of rant*
I don't quite believe there isn't a demand for smaller bikes.

My LBS doesn't stock them either and I've been their patron for over 10 years. Believe me I see tons of small women go in there and "special order" sight-unseen, lots of bikes. It's then ridiculous when I see them selling those bikes on consignment, a year later because they "don't fit."

Because women aren't a priority in the cycling industry, even though I believe we're the largest growing base!

Also, commuters are the largest growing base, but all I see are road-bikes in all my local shops. One of my LBS just started carrying fixed-gear bikes (Way to be late on that one. Lulz.) and the other never has. I know there is general snobbery in the cycling community, but I don't care what type of bike someone rides as long as they're on a bike!

To sum up, I think that the cycling industry in general is missing out on marketing to women - the demand is there.
*end of rant*

[Owlie]

Moderncyclista, I think you hit the nail on the head. Because women still comprise a relatively small portion of cyclists overall (road, mountain, commute, whatever), it makes more business sense from the shop's perspective to stock what they know is going to move. Likewise, if you go to most LBSes, they dedicate much of their stock to road bikes because the "roadie elite" are probably seen as more likely to plonk down a lot of money in their stores, as opposed to buying a low- to mid-price bike to minimize loss due to theft. I think the money thing is the same in road bike land. A few weeks ago we had a thread about why women didn't ride. One idea that came up repeatedly was "beginner women are less willing to spend a lot of money on a bike." So why stock the higher-end WSD stuff if it's not going to move?

My home LBS is pretty big, with several locations. Their women's road bikes are sadly lacking. They stock the mid-range sizes (48, 51cm), with not much on the high or low end of the bell curve. It's annoying. (And they don't have anything nicer than partial 105 on the floor.)
ETA: And they don't have anything in the way of WSD mountain bikes, either!

[Irulan]

I think it's important to not use a broad brush here. Most of my local shops understand pretty well what women want/need, and the broader community as a whole ( not just road riding). Just because it's not happening in your community doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Owlie]

I think it's important to not use a broad brush here. Most of my local shops understand pretty well what women want/need, and the broader community as a whole ( not just road riding). Just because it's not happening in your community doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I agree, but I think it's regional. The guy who did my fitting at my LBS, when I mentioned something about it being hard to find WSD bikes, even in that LBS (the area's largest), said that they'd love to offer more things that aren't pastel cruisers or lower-end road bikes (not that there's anything wrong with either of these!) but from a business perspective they have a hard time justifying it because they don't move as fast. They're trying to have a frame in each size that's representative of the line at least somewhere in their system, but it still means that you either have to drive all over the region or wait several days to be able to test it.
But then, this is bass-ackward Ohio, so I'm sure it's better in the PNW and other more bike-friendly parts of the country.

[breeze]

OK, so I rode a Specialized Dolce compact 48cm and Trek Madone 50cm this morning. The LBS guy was very thorough in fit, I think, putting me through the BodyCRM scanner, changing the stem on the Dolce and adjusting the saddle position after measuring with a plumb line. I was probably there for about three hours on just the two bikes. He talked about putting the bike up on the trainer and doing more adjustments after I found the right bike.

I did like my riding position on the Dolce, though my wrists/hands were sore after about the first 15 minutes. Not sure whether that is due to the new angle, to fit issues, or both. After my first ride on the Dolce and adjusting the saddle, the wrist issue eased a little. I found it somewhat hard to reach the brakes with my hands on the hoods, and could only brake with my lower two fingers. He mentioned that they could add a shim to make everything slightly closer. Is that normal? Also, I was really struggling to get on the saddle and moving because I was having some trouble touching my foot down. How much should I be able to reach the ground from the saddle?
I wish they'd had the 44 Dolce so that I could compare, though LBS guy insisted that it would be too small, and that I really needed something between the 44 and 48.

I expected to like the Madone a lot more, but I think that it was waaay too big. 50cm meant a 51.7 effective top tube, and I was stretching like mad. Of course there was nothing smaller in shop. They won't order the Terry for me unless I commit to buying it or unless Terry pays to take it back. Need to find out if they still have that offer, and figure out whether I want to deal with that. I'm feeling somewhat stuck in that I think this LBS guy was great and really paid attention to fit, but that out of a huge store with probably 100 or so bikes on display, there were only two for me to try, and both seemed a bit big. Obviously I can't make myself taller, but gosh, looking at all of those shiny bikes that weren't my size-- well, that was depressing. We had a separate convo about cyclocross bikes, but same problem-- nothing remotely my size in the shop.

Thinking about trying to hit the Trek concept shop tonight before they close. We'll see. I'm going to call the Terry dealer that's 3.5 hrs away (in Columbus) and see how quickly they could get in a bike for me to try, and then perhaps schedule a weekend trip later in June.

I'm also back to thinking about the Surly. While most of my current riding is on paved trails, one of my goals has been to ride part of the GAP trail between Pittsburgh and Washington, DC. Its a crushed limestone rail trail. So perhaps I need to think more about what I want to do with this bike, too. I want to go fast and far, but maybe I need to compromise.

[Irulan]

Sounds like you had a thorough fit! There are still adjustments they can make. My hoods got fiddled with a lot, both rotating them in some and rotating them up some - it was huge.

Now, I'm not as small as you, but you may not be able to put a foot down easily and you'll just have to get used to it.

Before the trek haters come on board... I LOVE my madone. One of my buddies is very small and riders the 47 and is very happy.

[Dogmama]

Before the trek haters come on board... I LOVE my madone. One of my buddies is very small and riders the 47 and is very happy.

Me? I don't hate my Trek. I just hate the service at the concept store and Trek WI. To the OP, I have a lemon of a concept store. There are probably good ones out there. If you have a good LBS you should never need to go to Trek WI.

The bike is great. I think that fact got lost in all of the talk about the service. It weighs practically nothing. The acceleration is incredible. Overall handling is awesome. The carbon fiber is really nice - stiff enough for good energy transfer but not punishing.

[nuliajuk]

... Also, I was really struggling to get on the saddle and moving because I was having some trouble touching my foot down. How much should I be able to reach the ground from the saddle?

...I'm also back to thinking about the Surly. While most of my current riding is on paved trails, one of my goals has been to ride part of the GAP trail between Pittsburgh and Washington, DC. Its a crushed limestone rail trail. So perhaps I need to think more about what I want to do with this bike, too. I want to go fast and far, but maybe I need to compromise.

You should not be expecting to put your foot on the ground from the saddle. This can be done by cruiser riders on things like Electras with the extreme (almost semi-recumbent) seat tube angle. On a normal road bike, you'd have to have the saddle far too low to be able to do that.
The usual way to start on a road bike is with one foot on the ground, the other on a pedal (usually the right, if you're right-handed) at the high side of the pedal stroke. Push off, find the other pedal in a standing position, then sit down.
If you're feeling stretched out on the WSD bikes you've been trying, a Surly (unless it's very tiny) will probably feel even more so. I looked at their frame geometry charts a couple years ago when searching for a touring bike and found that the top tubes were quite long compared with other makes in the same size.

[Catrin]

You should not be expecting to put your foot on the ground from the saddle. This can be done by cruiser riders on things like Electras with the extreme (almost semi-recumbent) seat tube angle. On a normal road bike, you'd have to have the saddle far too low to be able to do that......

If you're feeling stretched out on the WSD bikes you've been trying, a Surly (unless it's very tiny) will probably feel even more so. I looked at their frame geometry charts a couple years ago when searching for a touring bike and found that the top tubes were quite long compared with other makes in the same size.

Yes, for most bikes you can't expect to be able to touch more than your toes to the ground if your seat-post is adjusted to the right height to give you proper leg extension. If your legs aren't extended properly in the stroke then you will eventually develop injuries related to this. That being said, what many do is to start with the seat-post a little lower than optimum and then gradually raise the saddle height to the correct height (having marked it before lowering it a bit). This helps provide more confidence while building skills.

As far as the LHT is concerned. It is a touring bike with a different geometry than a "regular" road bike (however you define that), it is meant to stretch you out a bit more for those all-day long loaded touring rides. While a touring bike is a type of road bike, it isn't an apples to apples comparison. My first bike was a Trek (7.6FX) I bought it before I realized that Trek doesn't make one small enough - well, really, proportioned properly for me. I've fit issues beyond my size and nothing in the FX line comes close to fitting me.

The Trek experience led me to purchase a LHT as my next bike and I found that the LHT fit me FAR better even though it had a longer TT. So far I've not ridden a WSD that actually fit me, and I am short. The LHT was an awesome bike, and while I did convert the bike from drops to flat bars, it wasn't due to reach problems.

This is a long-winded way to tell you not to write off the LHT before finding one to test ride if possible. The LHT is all-day long comfortable, but it is heavy as it is meant for fully-loaded touring and the smaller sizes could be said to be over-built and perhaps a little too stable. I loved mine, and while I did eventually sell mine for reasons unrelated to the bike, I will always have fond memories of it.

[ny biker]

You should not be expecting to put your foot on the ground from the saddle. This can be done by cruiser riders on things like Electras with the extreme (almost semi-recumbent) seat tube angle. On a normal road bike, you'd have to have the saddle far too low to be able to do that.
The usual way to start on a road bike is with one foot on the ground, the other on a pedal (usually the right, if you're right-handed) at the high side of the pedal stroke. Push off, find the other pedal in a standing position, then sit down.
If you're feeling stretched out on the WSD bikes you've been trying, a Surly (unless it's very tiny) will probably feel even more so. I looked at their frame geometry charts a couple years ago when searching for a touring bike and found that the top tubes were quite long compared with other makes in the same size.

I think it's easier to find the second pedal if you sit down as soon as you push off with the first pedal. You're more stable at low speeds when you're seated.