Surly Pacer vs. Cross-Check

[withm]

I have a Dolce, and have put a rack on it successfully. Well, my bike shop did anyway. Changing the tires to 25s sounds like a wonderful idea, and I think I will attempt this if there is brake clearance for them.


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_2350.jpg

[carlotta]

I have a CC--in the lovely beef gravy brown....it has grown on me, and it hides dirt/grime well, but I saw the current blue color and kind of wished I'd waited a few months...

On to the important bits... I bought it as my primary commuter when I moved and the commute went from 4 mi to 22 mi round trip. It's been my do everything bike for the past 18 months and both my single speed and road bike have seen a lot fewer miles just because the CC is so versatile-- commute with lunch/change of clothes, ride with friends and take snacks for everybody, stop at the grocery store (or haul a case of beer ), etc.

It's plenty fast enough, and really comfortable for long rides. I also found it much more responsive/fun to ride than the LHT (not on your list, but I didn't test-ride the Pacer so that's the only Surly comparison I've got). It's not as twitchy as my road bike (old steel), but it's not a boring, heavy, plodder.

A couple comments (not negatives, but observations):
-It doesn't handle super well with a big load (a full trip to Trader Joe's makes for an interesting trip with two loaded panniers on the trip home). I've heard that it is better with a little weight on the front, but I don't have a front rack. Since you have a true tourer, I doubt this will be an issue. With ~20lbs of groceries, it's fine.

-I wish it came with a disk option, the stock brakes are a little anemic. I changed out the front one which helped, along with better brake pads. I also swapped out the stock brake levers for an old set that I had-- the stock ones have a big knob on the top of the hood (maybe the norm for newer bikes-- I've never ridden brifters, but it felt strange to me). The levers also had a higher pivot point so you needed longer fingers/bigger hands to apply the same force vs. the old ones that I have now. Anyway, not optimal, especially when I'm hauling groceries.

[eofelis]

I have a lot of experience with the 42cm sizes of the Pacer, LHT and "Cross Check."

The "Cross Check" bike I have is a Motobecane Fantom CXX which is basically the same frame as the Cross Check. I recently got this bike in 42cm white and have it built as a commuter and around town adventure ride. With the SRAM Apex it's a good buy, with better gearing, compared to the stock CC. You can ride it just about anywhere in an urban environment. I don't know what size you ride but the 42cm size has some pretty significant toe overlap. Some of my other bikes have toe overlap and I don't do track stands so I don't worry about it much.

I had a Pacer as my first real road bike. I think it's a really nice road bike frame for the price. It's not as light and fast as most road bikes, but it's very comfortable and stable. A bombproof road bike for varying road conditions. Mine had an all-day ride quality. I liked the steel fork. I always thought that it would be a great ride for multiday supported tours, and for lightweight loaded touring. Mine had a little lightweight pannier rack on it. The frame does not have braze-ons on the seat stays for a rack, but one strut attached to the brake bolt worked fine. I carried up to 20 lbs on that bike. The Pacer does have *much* less tire clearance than the CC, it only takes up to 32mm tires without fenders. I moved on from the Pacer only because I found a Gunnar Sport in my size and moved all the Pacer parts onto it.

The ride of the "Cross Check" and the Pacer is pretty similar. I haven't ridden an Aurora to compare. I assume it would ride pretty nice too.

[tzvia]

I agree with those who said that the 25c tires will make a difference. I just put 25c Continental 4000s on my Ruby and it makes a BIG difference. That Continental is a wide for it's size tire, and in 25c it is noticeably bigger than the Vittoria Open Corsa or Hutchinson Fusions I had been using in 23c. No loss of speed, I think I am faster actually. The Black Chilli compound is not a marketing 'bla-bla'; that stuff rolls great and has good compliance and grip and I feel more confident on them. I'm really liking these tires on my Ruby. The Hutchinsons were so thin by comparison and did not roll any better and transmitted much more of the road surface to my hands and bottom.

So I would say to try a nice quality 25c tire in the Dolce; you might be surprised.

[roguedog]

Eofelis... can you compare the gunnar to the pacer? Thanks

[eofelis]

Eofelis... can you compare the gunnar to the pacer? Thanks

All the parts on the Pacer, including the fork, were moved onto the Gunnar Sport frame. But the Gunnar Sport was not a stock size frame. It was a custom done for someone else that I got on ebay. It's about 41cm c-t, about 51cm effective top tube. It has 700c wheels. The stock size Gunnar Sports in xs size have 650c wheels.

My parts are 9 speed Ultegra triple cranks (165mm crank arms), Shimano R600 (Ultegra quality) triple STIs, Salsa Poco handlebars (40cm), 'cross brake levers, XT 12-34 cassette and XT rear der., Mavic Open Pro wheels, 32 spokes. Tires, 25mm, vary depending on what I find on sale or in the bike room.

My Sport has a probably has a bit different geometry than the Pacer, maybe slacker headtube and seat tube angles (but I haven't checked exactly). My Gunnar has longer chainstays than the Pacer, at least 1cm longer. The Gunnar is thinner walled higher quality steel tubing, OX Platinum and 853, compared to the 4130 steel of the Pacer. The Surly tubing is pretty hard to dent, the Gunnar tubing dents more easily. So the Gunnar is probably a bit lighter in weight than the Pacer.

The Pacer is a pretty comfortable ride. The Gunnar is an absolute couch. I've done big long mountain climbs and descents, and century rides on rough and chip sealed roads, on both and neither one is the least bit buzzy and I never felt beat up at the end of the day.

[roguedog]

Thanks for the info!

[Catrin]

So the Gunnar is probably a bit lighter in weight than the Pacer...

It is probably quite a bit lighter. I don't know if a Pacer is significantly lighter than a Long Haul Trucker in a similar size, but my full custom Gunnar (~48cm) is a good 12 pounds lighter than my LHT was (46cm). That higher quality steel makes a difference in the weight! That was one of my reasons to get a Gunnar - to lower the weight while keeping that day-long comfort.

[Kubla]

I have a lot of experience with the 42cm sizes of the Pacer, LHT and "Cross Check."

The "Cross Check" bike I have is a Motobecane Fantom CXX which is basically the same frame as the Cross Check. I recently got this bike in 42cm white and have it built as a commuter and around town adventure ride. With the SRAM Apex it's a good buy, with better gearing, compared to the stock CC. You can ride it just about anywhere in an urban environment. I don't know what size you ride but the 42cm size has some pretty significant toe overlap. Some of my other bikes have toe overlap and I don't do track stands so I don't worry about it much.

I had a Pacer as my first real road bike. I think it's a really nice road bike frame for the price. It's not as light and fast as most road bikes, but it's very comfortable and stable. A bombproof road bike for varying road conditions. Mine had an all-day ride quality. I liked the steel fork. I always thought that it would be a great ride for multiday supported tours, and for lightweight loaded touring. Mine had a little lightweight pannier rack on it. The frame does not have braze-ons on the seat stays for a rack, but one strut attached to the brake bolt worked fine. I carried up to 20 lbs on that bike. The Pacer does have *much* less tire clearance than the CC, it only takes up to 32mm tires without fenders. I moved on from the Pacer only because I found a Gunnar Sport in my size and moved all the Pacer parts onto it.

The ride of the "Cross Check" and the Pacer is pretty similar. I haven't ridden an Aurora to compare. I assume it would ride pretty nice too.

Eeofolis,

I took a look at the Motobecane-not a bad choice for the money. Coincidentally, I found one on my local CraigsList after you mentioned it, but it's a 54 and would be too large for me. (I rode a 50 cm in the Cross-Check; I think that is a good size for me.) What I'll probably do is research tires for the Dolce and go to 25's instead of leaning toward the Pacer.

I compared the 2012 CC specs with the 2011; the 2011 seems to be a little better for the money. We don't have a lot of dealers that carry Surly, but the shop where I bought the two Jamis bikes (Harris Cyclery) seems to have leftover '11s as well as 12s. I may call them this weekend if I'm not successful in talking myself out of this...

[Kubla]

Since several people suggested that I try wider tires on my Dolce for a more comfortable ride, I went online this weekend, read some reviews and picked out a pair of 25s-Continental Gatorskins.

I almost sprang for the Continental Grand Prix 4000 S because the store had them for a decent price, but ultimately decided the Gatorskins would be a good place for me to start. (Tires eventually wear out-if they don't prove to be the right choice, I can buy something else next time around. Picking the wrong bike is a more inconvenient mistake.)

If anyone is looking for tires, check out Westernbikeworks.com; not only did I stumble upon a sale, but received an additional discount for being a new customer-AND a coupon for 15% off my next purchase (within 30 days). I got the Gatorskins for $42.49 each-with free shipping.

I think this is going to help make the Dolce more fun to ride. As for the Surly: I still would like a Cross-Check but somehow managed to talk myself out of a trip to the LBS yesterday. It wasn't easy. After riding with a friend through the woods on packed trails Friday, I have been inspired to ride off-road more. There are several State parks near me that would be fun to explore...(Does N+1 ever end??)