Possible?: More millenials want liveable neighbourhoods, more transit, etc.

[Koronin]

To me, this is not cheaper. Although the actual dollars might be less, the toll on my life and my happiness is not worth it (same reason I don't shop at WalMart - I lose valuable years off my life going in that crazy place!). I could not imagine sitting in traffic in my car for a couple of hours each day. All that sitting and doing nothing... yuck. People who can do this impress me, as it is something I could never do.

When I worked in downtown Charlotte I typically didn't work hours in which I had to deal with rush hour traffic. I was typically working afternoon or night shift so traffic wasn't bad. Actually same goes for my husband. Now when we were in DC for a trip I specifically picked a hotel that was right near the train line and we used that the entire time we were there. I did however, discover two things, first being I have to take motion sickness pills to be able to ride light rail and the other is to me I felt very confined. (I agree with you about WalMart. I prefer to avoid that place as well).

[shootingstar]

As mentioned earlier, car can be necessary for night shift work. (I mentioned it when referring to medical interns. They work long shifts 10-12 hrs. 80 hrs. per wk. sometimes. Yea, medical interns in Canada work hard to earn their....doctor's license after testing, etc.)

Would I choose to live in more rural area long term? No. I can't kid myself for the services I need long-term to enjoy life.

Crankin, one of my sisters tried to have her teenage son take the bus to school. But I think they gave up temporarily because they were not comfortable or whatever. Maybe when he gets older. He's 14 yrs.

With my partner's children, they each had a large group of friends that they hung around alot in coffee shops, etc. in Toronto. In Toronto, one sees this, teens of 2-10 hanging out together. A good thing in terms of safety and bonding.

None of his children got into drugs. Toronto is a city of over 2 million people.

[Koronin]

Those are long hours for interns. That is crazy. I've been to Toronto, it's a really cool city and has a great transportation system. (Yes have used it on vacation.) Actually theirs was the first one I'd ever used. Oh and I didn't need motion sickness pills on that one. When I was in high school a few of my friends would go to Toronto on weekends that we had extra time off. I've always thought of it as a very safe city for being as large as it is. (Esp when comparing it to many US cities).

[Blueberry]

I definitely think we're running into some cultural difference in this thread.

There are moderately sized cities in the US where living near the city center in a safe location (even if one is willing to make the sacrifices that shootingstar points out) is not feasible. There are just not dwellings available for purchase. As US cities sprawled they did not develop residential areas near the working areas, and we're just now starting to re-develop in lots of our downtown areas for some residential use. There are also many, many places where public transit is either completely unworkable for the average person, or totally non-existent. US cities have not invested in infrastructure as other places have (other than to build roads), so for kids to learn public transit isn't an option.

We've been privileged to be able to make choices that reduce our dependance on a car, and are making yet more changes. Others aren't lucky enough to live in an area where that is feasible.

[Crankin]

I agree, Blueberry. I've lived in the northeast, west, and south, and in the latter 2, there was no public transportation at all. Yea, there was a bus in Dade County when I lived there, but it was not convenient. Yet, the city I grew up in (a suburb next to Boston) had 5-6 trolley car stops and a bus system in the 50s and 60s. I know Miami and Phoenix have light rail now, but how long did that take?
I disagree with the idea that I'd rather sit in my car and pay for gas instead of taxes. Sometimes we forget what taxes pay for. Don't like your schools? Your roads? Not enough police or fire protection, or public transportation? In the US, we just don't get it. Taxes pay for the services that make for a better quality of life. And, this system only works if everyone participates. So, when people make choices that avoid paying taxes, it affects all of us.
Sorry to go on a rant; I'd much rather have the "quality of life," than other stuff. I know that I am lucky and can pretty much afford to live wherever, but I have always felt like this. When I was a young teacher, I lived in a studio apartment where I could walk to downtown Tempe, ride my bike to grad classes, and to my parents' house. All of my friends lived in much more modern 2 bedrooms apartments way out in the middle of nowhere.
Sometimes we really have to change how we think.

[shootingstar]

It's better for Koronin to join up with local citizens to express their needs for transit long term.

I sympathize with her because my parents did buy a home in the suburbs and lived their for 15 years in this same city (where I grew up) after all 5 (except for 6th one) left home to live in other cities. It was a nice area but a pain in the butt for getting around anywhere to services/shopping easily.

But still they did have a home out in the burbs within a 15 min. of bus stop..because several of us didn't have cars when we went to visit them. Then later moved into mid-town Toronto. I'm so glad: my father has prostate cancer....most definitely not good to have them out in the suburbs and isolated...away from children..grandchildren.


We have to change how to live at different stages in life. It is for our survival in quality life if we choose to be independent but safe to ourselves and others around us. (Driving by the elderly with increased frailities is not a good idea.)

[Koronin]

Crankin, I'm sure by your comment you have no idea that roads in NC are only paid for by the gas tax. Fire dept is only funded by personal property taxes and the schools, and police are also partially funded by personal property taxes. The property taxes basically fund the county and city on their operating expenses. For the most part state income and sales taxes fund the school systems NOT property taxes. Some of the larger counties are "donor" counties which means they send more money to the state in sales and income taxes than what they get back. The money they do not get back is sent to poorer areas of the state for those areas to fund their schools and other things they need. So truthfully it does NOT matter where you live because if you live in a large county like Mecklanberg you're funding schools for other parts of the state. If you live in a smaller county you may be getting help from the larger counties or you may be in a break even county. I actually lived in a "break even" county. Oh and for paying for public transportation the ONLY thing that funds it is the fees you pay for actually using it. Taxes do not pay for it at all. Due to costs going up, they are currently raising fees AND cutting routes. That is mostly due to the rise in gas prices.


shootstar, about 4-5 years ago Charlotte built their first light rail line. It only services the southern part of the city, but everything I've read and heard is that it has been very sucessful. They are in the process of just now starting the 2nd line which will run about 5 miles from Charlotte to the university area. I'm very happy to see that. They had originally wanted it to run another 3 miles, but they don't have the financing to do that right now, so are going to build what they can. The 3rd line they want to build (which would go to near where I used to live) may never get built. 3 of the 4 cities along that line don't want it unless they are guaranteed all kinds of business and revenue coming in along the line and for some unknown reason they want to use existing rail that is owned and operated by freight trains and NOT respect their schedules. So the freight trains have said either you run your routes around us or build your own. So I doubt that line will ever get built at this point. I was very supportive of it when I first heard about it as I still lived there at the time. Now where I currently live they are actually working on more bike routes and bike lanes vs doing anything at all with public transportation. Which actually I get here. The main employer is the Marine Base. Base housing will allow public transportation, but the base it's self will not due to security reasons. Truthfully without public transportation running routes that would go on base and go to several different areas of the base it just really isn't feasible here as there are no other large employers. Basically the city is around 80,000 (maybe closer to 100,000) now with the extra troops that have brought in. However, of that at least have are military or military families and another quarter to a third are civil service that work on base.

[Crankin]

I know that different states fund things differently and what you describe is different from anywhere else I have lived. But, I guess my comment reflects a general philosophy rather than your specific case. I just don't like it when I hear anti-tax stuff, as many people I have met don't make the connection between services and taxes. When your state (city, town) loses revenue, they don't collect taxes, hence you lose services.
Public transportation is a state of mind that many parts of the US just doesn't want to accept. Not sure how to change this, except that people need to get together on this one. Everyone benefits.