Possible?: More millenials want liveable neighbourhoods, more transit, etc.

[shootingstar]

Would agree that having a community centre and park within 5-10 min. walking distance is helpful for any type of housing.

In downtown Vancouver among highrise condos by the waterfront...they are BUILDING 2 new elementary schools (kindergarten to grade 6) because there are alot of families living in this area. When you think about that, it's incredible. 1 of the schools is in the Olympic Village area. So families with some money, are choosing to live closer to or in the core of Vancouver. Some of this housing is a blend of high-rise, low-rise and townhouses.

And these are more expensive places. There's lots of green lovely space, bike-pedestrian paths, market is close and Stanley Park is a few km. away.

It wouldn't be surprising that the culture of Singapore is such that children do play, but more of a tendency to get kids to study, study...which isn't totally healthy either.

I'm only saying this because in Vancouver there are many ESL schools for adults, older teens, many recently or directly from Asia, who are there because some have parents who are pushing them there to ramp on their grades ...to enter into university. (Also dearie's daughter has worked for several of these schools in Vancouver. I hear about the situation from her....)

It depends what one is used to. It doesn't interest me to be in a 2-3 bedroom single family dwelling out in the 'burbs. I don't have children. Makes no sense to isolate myself. Dearie had his taste of surburbs before he married and had children. He and his ex chose to live in a home in downtown Toronto not far from transit. There are some decent neighbourhoods in Toronto close to the subway. I know, I used to live there and still have family scattered across the city....all close to transit for their homes.

[Koronin]

When we lived in the Charlotte, NC area. We lived in Mooresville. Without traffic it's about a half hour drive to downtown Charlotte. During rush hour, that have hour becomes a minimum of 2 hours. Here's the thing about Charlotte. If you want to live in a decent to good area of town, you going to have to pay at least $500,000 for a house or condo. If you can't afford that (like most people) you either live in a very bad area, or you move to a different city and commute. As for public transportation, well if you work a regular hour job that's great you can use it, but if you work odd hours which my husband always did (or I did when I worked in Charlotte) public transportation is totally useless as the buses either aren't running when you get to work or when you get off work, or in the case of one of the night shifts I worked either one. Another thing to consider is taxes. Charlotte/Mecklanburg taxes are much higher than they are in any of the surrounding counties. In looking it's actually cheaper to commute to work and waste a couple hours a day sitting in traffic than to pay the much higher taxes in Mecklanberg county (which would include 3 other cities besides Charlotte). Also the cost of appartments and homes is a good bit less in the cities outside of Mecklanberg county as long as you aren't looking to buy a home on the lake, then those are also a minimum of $350,000 last I knew. I don't mind living in town. Where we currently live is actually about 1 mile outside of the city limits, but we love the neighborhood. (We also have virtually no public transportation anyway, what we do have is useless as it picks up in a couple neighborhoods and it's only stop is the mall). I grew up in a home in the city limits. The city I grew up in did not (and still does not) have any form of public transportation. Public transportation is just something that if you don't live in a huge metro area you really just don't have available. The one thing I did like about where I grew up was there were a few stores that were within walking distance. Where I'm at now, if the main road had a side walk or a mut you could walk to a couple of places. I have no interest in walking on the main road, but may eventually be willing to ride my bike on it. (But probably never during rush hour).

[westtexas]

In looking it's actually cheaper to commute to work and waste a couple hours a day sitting in traffic than to pay the much higher taxes...

To me, this is not cheaper. Although the actual dollars might be less, the toll on my life and my happiness is not worth it (same reason I don't shop at WalMart - I lose valuable years off my life going in that crazy place!). I could not imagine sitting in traffic in my car for a couple of hours each day. All that sitting and doing nothing... yuck. People who can do this impress me, as it is something I could never do.

[shootingstar]

Also the cost of appartments and homes is a good bit less in the cities outside of Mecklanberg county as long as you aren't looking to buy a home on the lake, then those are also a minimum of $350,000 last I knew.

In Vancouver, BC you would get a 1 bedroom and small one --if you're lucky. It has the highest real estate in Canada. (Actually at that price, it's probably more Toronto, which means Toronto is a bit cheaper than Vancouver.)

It terms of increased value for one's home over time, it's probably better to get a place within walking distance of transit or bike/ped path to destinations anyway --even if you drive alot.

Alot of real estate agents would tell you that....if they aren't, then they haven't progressed in their way of thinking. (Sorry to be brutal, but that's my opinion of what I expect out of real estate agents...intelligent, market forecasting of community future needs. Not just out to make a quick sale.)

Certainly in Vancouver and Toronto, it's been proven if you have a home within a very short bike ride to a bike -ped. path in a greenway area, it will make your neighbourhood more valued --for many different reasons.

At work, a colleague mentioned that she personally knew someone whose children (late teens to early '20s) had never used our local transit system which does have a wide network. She and I both thought it was wierd....and ridiculous. (which means the children had been chauffered around in cars or not allowed to use transit. ) The person who told me this is herself is a single mother with 2 children in now their early 20's. Colleague's children do a blend of driving as well as taking transit at times.

Koronin, I grew up a twinned city in southern Ontario in the 1960's-1970's. Population at that time was under 80,000 for 2 cities combined. There was/still is a transit system. This city also has 2 universities and 1 college. We lived only a 10 min. walk away from local bus system. I learned to use it when I was.....14 yrs. old by myself. Yes, those were the days. But later I went university and used it for lousy weather days. I just walked 5 km. each way between home and campus when the weather was good.

So as a child, I already knew how transit fitted into my life. If children are not exposed to using any transit several times per year (even with an adult), it would be tougher (in my opinion) to get them used it and how to weave it into their schedule.

Maybe some millenials got tired of being held to someone else's driving schedule, cost of car/insurance/gas to have a car, whatever else or maybe there's less stuff to do in the suburbs as teens grow independent and get itchy feet....? Or maybe preference to spend their money on technology vs. car or ...?

[Crankin]

My oldest son could not wait until he could drive himself to the train station. I started letting him go into Cambridge by himself when he was in 9th grade (I dropped him at the train) and many parents thought I was terrible. He spent his entire high school years "walking" around Boston and Cambridge, going to stores and coffee shops with his friends. We lived in a rural town of 5,000. There was nothing to do at all. My younger son never had the desire to do this. He was too busy training for racing on our rural and suburban roads. However, now he lives close to the downtown of his city, and one block from the beach, too. You can walk to plenty of places and catch also a train, which for southern California is good.
I remember so clearly, the first time I took my kids into Boston, after we moved here from AZ. They were 5 and 7. We went to do a walking tour, which involved taking the commuter rail and the subway to the start, as we lived up near the NH border at the time. My kids were "amazed" that I knew where to go, what trains to catch and the fact that I had started doing this at age 11 (and, that my mother let me).

[lovelygamer]

My oldest son could not wait until he could drive himself to the train station. I started letting him go into Cambridge by himself when he was in 9th grade (I dropped him at the train) and many parents thought I was terrible. He spent his entire high school years "walking" around Boston and Cambridge, going to stores and coffee shops with his friends. We lived in a rural town of 5,000. There was nothing to do at all. My younger son never had the desire to do this. He was too busy training for racing on our rural and suburban roads. However, now he lives close to the downtown of his city, and one block from the beach, too. You can walk to plenty of places and catch also a train, which for southern California is good.
I remember so clearly, the first time I took my kids into Boston, after we moved here from AZ. They were 5 and 7. We went to do a walking tour, which involved taking the commuter rail and the subway to the start, as we lived up near the NH border at the time. My kids were "amazed" that I knew where to go, what trains to catch and the fact that I had started doing this at age 11 (and, that my mother let me).

Crankin, by this thread I realize you live where I am going on vacation next month. I'm hoping to go to the Walden pond one day and were staying in Cambridge across the Charles River. Our hotel rents bikes for free and I plan to use them but my other half will not. He doesn't believe in commuting by bike and/or using them for practical nature. He likes to MTB, but I'm still working on the rest. Me, though I'll ride almost anywhere and love to do so. We are not renting a car and plan to use the transit system everywhere. I think the stop closest to our hotel is Lechemere. I also read that we get to Concord taking the Fitchburg line from the North Station. I am so excited!

[Koronin]

In Vancouver, BC you would get a 1 bedroom and small one --if you're lucky. It has the highest real estate in Canada. (Actually at that price, it's probably more Toronto, which means Toronto is a bit cheaper than Vancouver.)

It terms of increased value for one's home over time, it's probably better to get a place within walking distance of transit or bike/ped path to destinations anyway --even if you drive alot.

Alot of real estate agents would tell you that....if they aren't, then they haven't progressed in their way of thinking. (Sorry to be brutal, but that's my opinion of what I expect out of real estate agents...intelligent, market forecasting of community future needs. Not just out to make a quick sale.)

Certainly in Vancouver and Toronto, it's been proven if you have a home within a very short bike ride to a bike -ped. path in a greenway area, it will make your neighbourhood more valued --for many different reasons.

At work, a colleague mentioned that she personally knew someone whose children (late teens to early '20s) had never used our local transit system which does have a wide network. She and I both thought it was wierd....and ridiculous. (which means the children had been chauffered around in cars or not allowed to use transit. ) The person who told me this is herself is a single mother with 2 children in now their early 20's. Colleague's children do a blend of driving as well as taking transit at times.

Koronin, I grew up a twinned city in southern Ontario in the 1960's-1970's. Population at that time was under 80,000 for 2 cities combined. There was/still is a transit system. This city also has 2 universities and 1 college. We lived only a 10 min. walk away from local bus system. I learned to use it when I was.....14 yrs. old by myself. Yes, those were the days. But later I went university and used it for lousy weather days. I just walked 5 km. each way between home and campus when the weather was good.

So as a child, I already knew how transit fitted into my life. If children are not exposed to using any transit several times per year (even with an adult), it would be tougher (in my opinion) to get them used it and how to weave it into their schedule.

Maybe some millenials got tired of being held to someone else's driving schedule, cost of car/insurance/gas to have a car, whatever else or maybe there's less stuff to do in the suburbs as teens grow independent and get itchy feet....? Or maybe preference to spend their money on technology vs. car or ...?

You do realize that the $350,000 is for a lake front home (that would be homes less than 500 sq ft and no where near a main channel and way back off back roads to get to it). There is NO public transportation anywhere near the lake homes. You're paying to live on the lake. If you want to be close to public transportation the stop in Huntersville has apts near by, but no single family homes (must drive to the parking lot for the bus). In Charlotte the bus stops are all near not very desirable places to live. If you want to live in a decent area of Charlotte (no apts) you'd be paying a minimum of $500,000 for a condo PLUS HOA fees. Or minimum $1,000,000 for a house and you will be no where near a bus stop or the new light rail. All those stops are in areas that are crime ridden. Hey if you want to live in neighborhoods with robberies, murders, attacks, ect on a weekly basis go ahead, but I'd rather live in a safe affordable area, which for most people who aren't doctors or lawyers or CEOs is not downtown Charlotte.

The city I grew up in had a around 50,000 people and is a bit less than that now. The city I went to college in was and still is at 100,000 and another 100,000 in the suburbs and there is no public transportation for either city. Another city I grew up about 45 minutes away from has a population of close to 300,000 and it's sister city has about 250,000 and neither one has any public transportation.
The city I now live in is 80,000 people, and as I stated has two bus routes. One goes from base housing to the mall, the other goes from a bad area of town to the mall. That is it. No other routes. The larger city an hour away does not have public transportation.

Then to be able to use public transportation you have to work while it is actually operating. Let's first pick up for Charlotte's buses is around 8am and the last drop off is around 9pm (they have to back at their hub no later than 10pm). The only place I worked in downtown Charlotte. Day shift was 7am to 3pm. Afternoon shift 3pm -11pm and night shift was 11pm til 7am. Couldn't use public transportation even if there was a stop within 5 miles, which there wasn't. The closest bus stop I saw was about 8 miles away. The other place my husband worked downtown shifts were 4am - 3pm and 3:30pm until 2:30am. Also not condusive to public transportation. For public transportation to work, IMO, you actually need a regular office job which is not something a lot of people actually have. Now for my current job even if it was available and useful it wouldn't work, but I'm also lugging around a truck full of stuff for different projects. Hence the reason for buying a small hatchback that is easier to get things in and out of it.

[Koronin]

To me, this is not cheaper. Although the actual dollars might be less, the toll on my life and my happiness is not worth it (same reason I don't shop at WalMart - I lose valuable years off my life going in that crazy place!). I could not imagine sitting in traffic in my car for a couple of hours each day. All that sitting and doing nothing... yuck. People who can do this impress me, as it is something I could never do.

When I worked in downtown Charlotte I typically didn't work hours in which I had to deal with rush hour traffic. I was typically working afternoon or night shift so traffic wasn't bad. Actually same goes for my husband. Now when we were in DC for a trip I specifically picked a hotel that was right near the train line and we used that the entire time we were there. I did however, discover two things, first being I have to take motion sickness pills to be able to ride light rail and the other is to me I felt very confined. (I agree with you about WalMart. I prefer to avoid that place as well).

[shootingstar]

As mentioned earlier, car can be necessary for night shift work. (I mentioned it when referring to medical interns. They work long shifts 10-12 hrs. 80 hrs. per wk. sometimes. Yea, medical interns in Canada work hard to earn their....doctor's license after testing, etc.)

Would I choose to live in more rural area long term? No. I can't kid myself for the services I need long-term to enjoy life.

Crankin, one of my sisters tried to have her teenage son take the bus to school. But I think they gave up temporarily because they were not comfortable or whatever. Maybe when he gets older. He's 14 yrs.

With my partner's children, they each had a large group of friends that they hung around alot in coffee shops, etc. in Toronto. In Toronto, one sees this, teens of 2-10 hanging out together. A good thing in terms of safety and bonding.

None of his children got into drugs. Toronto is a city of over 2 million people.

[Koronin]

Those are long hours for interns. That is crazy. I've been to Toronto, it's a really cool city and has a great transportation system. (Yes have used it on vacation.) Actually theirs was the first one I'd ever used. Oh and I didn't need motion sickness pills on that one. When I was in high school a few of my friends would go to Toronto on weekends that we had extra time off. I've always thought of it as a very safe city for being as large as it is. (Esp when comparing it to many US cities).

[Blueberry]

I definitely think we're running into some cultural difference in this thread.

There are moderately sized cities in the US where living near the city center in a safe location (even if one is willing to make the sacrifices that shootingstar points out) is not feasible. There are just not dwellings available for purchase. As US cities sprawled they did not develop residential areas near the working areas, and we're just now starting to re-develop in lots of our downtown areas for some residential use. There are also many, many places where public transit is either completely unworkable for the average person, or totally non-existent. US cities have not invested in infrastructure as other places have (other than to build roads), so for kids to learn public transit isn't an option.

We've been privileged to be able to make choices that reduce our dependance on a car, and are making yet more changes. Others aren't lucky enough to live in an area where that is feasible.

[Crankin]

I agree, Blueberry. I've lived in the northeast, west, and south, and in the latter 2, there was no public transportation at all. Yea, there was a bus in Dade County when I lived there, but it was not convenient. Yet, the city I grew up in (a suburb next to Boston) had 5-6 trolley car stops and a bus system in the 50s and 60s. I know Miami and Phoenix have light rail now, but how long did that take?
I disagree with the idea that I'd rather sit in my car and pay for gas instead of taxes. Sometimes we forget what taxes pay for. Don't like your schools? Your roads? Not enough police or fire protection, or public transportation? In the US, we just don't get it. Taxes pay for the services that make for a better quality of life. And, this system only works if everyone participates. So, when people make choices that avoid paying taxes, it affects all of us.
Sorry to go on a rant; I'd much rather have the "quality of life," than other stuff. I know that I am lucky and can pretty much afford to live wherever, but I have always felt like this. When I was a young teacher, I lived in a studio apartment where I could walk to downtown Tempe, ride my bike to grad classes, and to my parents' house. All of my friends lived in much more modern 2 bedrooms apartments way out in the middle of nowhere.
Sometimes we really have to change how we think.