indysteel,

This thread prompted me to try on a pair of the new 2012 RS Shorts. Chamois seems to be about the same size and shape as last year's version. I've not ridden on it yet, but it seemed well placed in the short.

After trying it on, I have three "loves" and one "caution" to mention.

LOVES:

1) Oh my oh my, I looooove the size of the leg hole openings. Personally, I've mostly gone away from "constructed" leg hole openings with traditional or silicone grippers because I have big quads. I could be 100 pounds and I would still have me some big legs! So, I've come to prefer shorts with either unconstructed leg hole openings (a la the Louis Garneau Neo Power shorts, one of my current faves) or shorts that have leg hole openings appropriately sized for quads like mine (a la the Pearl Izumi PRO Elite shorts). Sooooo, I was pleasantly surprised to try on the new RS and find the leg hole openings to be perfect. They were built for legs like mine! Women with long, lean legs (I always think of those as "runner's legs" ) might find them a little loose. (I should note that traditionally Sugoi's shorts tended to have generous leg hole openings. We used to recommend them to folks for that reason all the time. In 2010-2011, the leg hole openings seemed to get smaller, especially on the top end RSE product. 2012 RSE is still small, but the 2012 RS reminds me of the way they used to be.)

2) A big change for 2012 is the unconstructed waistband. NO elastic at the waist. Soooo comfy. Yet, the waist is well shaped and sculpted, so it doesn't feel like it wants to fall down. I'm a big fan of waists like this, especially for longer rides (centuries, brevets, etc) where a bit of bloating or intestinal distress might make one feel like the waist is digging or cutting into the gut. Plus, no muffin-top!

3) I continue to love the fabric this short is made with. It's such a wonderful warm/hot weather fabric. Light and airy.

OK, so now my caution....

My one area of concern is the stitch line that encircles the shorts at the bottom of the waistband. See it here: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodSU_38384F.html The stitch that Sugoi used does not have a lot of give/stretch. So, when I put them on, the stitch line pulled taut and I had to sort of shimmy them over my hips. My concern here has 2 components. a) I'm afraid that someone trying them on might think they were too small because of that snug stitch. Once they are on, and the stitch is up at your waist, the fit is perfect, with no restriction or tension at that stitch line, as your waist is so much smaller than your hip circumference. b) I'm concerned about the durability/structural integrity of that stitch line. If the shorts get yanked on, there's some potential, I think, to pop some stitches there. Over time, it might cause that seam to fail.

That said, I would still encourage you to give the new 2012 version a try. We will OF COURSE warranty them should my concerns about that stitch line be realized, or if they should fail for any other reason. There are enough things that I *love* about the new short that I would hate to see you shy away from it without giving it a chance.

Tulip -

I am SO sorry to hear that you've been "stuck" with a pair of shorts that are not presentable in public. Yikes! I don't know what the circumstances were that caused you to be unsure of whether or not you could return the shorts, but just based on what you've written, it sounds like a defect that should qualify for a warranty. It's up to you, but if you feel like you've not really gotten the life out of these shorts that you would have expected, I would encourage you to call in to our customer service department and ask to speak to Anna. She can arrange a return authorization for those shorts and issue you a store credit that you could use towards a new pair, be that a new RS, a pair of Evolutions or whatever else you think might suit your needs. I'm forwarding her a link to this thread so that if you do call in, she won't be caught unaware. It would be good to mention it in the conversation with her, so that she'll know what's going on.

Owlie -

You mention that your Evolution short has the red chamois it in. That means your shorts are, gosh, at least 3-4 years old. Kudos to you for taking such good care of your shorts! In the intervening years, there have been *numerous* changes to the Evolution short. Chamois, fabric and fit have all changed over those years, so you might not even consider it the same short!

The 2012 version has the same fabric and chamois as the 2011 version. But there are some differences. The most noticeable change is the waistband. The 2012 has an unconstructed "criss-cross" yoga-style waistband. Here's a close-up shot of the front of that band: http://images.teamestrogen.com/ri/65...LK_detail2.jpg It's very comfortable and that style of waistband has proven very popular with customers. *However*, it also means that the drawcord waist found in earlier version of this short has been eliminated. If you are someone that likes drawcord shorts because shorts tend to slide down on you, then the 2012 version of the Evolution might not be your cup of tea.

Ladies, I hope this information is helpful. I'm going to forward a link to this thread to our customer service staff so that they know what the conversation has been, particularly regarding some of the QC issues you've discussed. As always, I really appreciate that you've taken the time to express the problems that you've had. I want you to know that TE *and* Sugoi are paying attention. I had dinner with folks at Sugoi last night, and this thread came up in conversation. Sugoi is very aware that there's been QC issues over the past couple of years. While all of the kinks may not have been worked out yet, they really are committed to fixing the issues AND making sure that they keep you satisfied along the way. So please, let us know what you think of the new 2012s!

Susan