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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575
    Thanks for the great input everyone. I'm seeing two themes here. One is that many of you worked through lots of problems to become runners and that I shouldn't give up too soon. The other theme is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    I should point out that while I never considered my tendency to toe out as being "broken", a physical therapist that I worked with to rehab my broken ankle led me to believe that it was a problem. The therapist was constantly after me to straighten out my foot and keep my knee over my toe to protect my knee during the exercises. This idea was reinforced when I read Chi Running. I thought that straightening my foot while I ran would protect my knee. It sure didn't turn out that way, (although the pain isn't so much in my knee but right below it). I'm just gonna go back to my natural way of moving after this experience.

    Oakleaf, I haven't read the link yet since I wanted to acknowledge everyone's responses before it got too late. Looks interesting, though.

    I'm off to ice my leg. Now I'm looking forward to trying to run again. I don't love it yet but I'm open to the possibility.
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Artista View Post
    I should point out that while I never considered my tendency to toe out as being "broken", a physical therapist that I worked with to rehab my broken ankle led me to believe that it was a problem. The therapist was constantly after me to straighten out my foot and keep my knee over my toe to protect my knee during the exercises.
    Sounds like trying to drum up business, IMO. Yeah, if you're doing lunges or squats you want to concentrate on your form, but trying to change your natural form too much while running is recipe for disaster. It's like trying to force your foot into a degree of rotation on the pedal that doesn't feel good. some people's toes point quite straight ahead, while others are more comfortable with a bit of toe-in or toe-out. I know that if I rotate my cleats even a degree too far one direction or the other and have pedals without a little bit of float that my knees and hips and glutes feel it almost immediately.

    If your toeing-out had never caused issues before I really have to wonder why a PT would encourage you to change. Is the PT a runner, themselves?
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575
    Quote Originally Posted by zoom-zoom View Post
    Sounds like trying to drum up business, IMO.
    The therapist is a runner and cyclist but I never discussed running with him. His reminders to point my foot forward were concentrated on walking in his clinic and doing a ton of backwards and lateral exercises like step-ups, monster walks, and walking backwards against tension. His reminders, and the exercises that he gave me, did seem to influence my foot to naturally point straighter ahead during easy activities like walking on flat ground. My foot still wants to point out when my leg is under stress, like walking uphill, running, and doing lunges and squats. My knee never complains about my foot pointing out a bit but it sometimes feels stressed when I try to bring my foot in. This makes me wonder if my tendency to toe out is a combination of anatomical alignment, as Wahine suggested, and muscle imbalances that I may have developed over the years. Regardless of the cause, I've decided to embrace the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach.

    ETA: The point I didn't get to in this post is that the therapist never suggested that I try to correct my foot while running. That hairbrained idea was totally mine.
    Last edited by Artista; 02-21-2012 at 07:10 AM.
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Traveling Nomad
    Posts
    6,763
    Artista,

    I will chime in here because I am also not a natural runner, never ran in high school (avoided all sports, in fact). I started jogging just a bit in college, but it was only done to lose weight, not because I wanted to be a "runner". I am sure my longest run then was two miles.

    I never ran again until a few years ago (in my late 40s), and it is not something that came easily to me either. I have only done a few runs of five miles in my entire lifetime. For the past couple of years, I mostly ran on the treadmill at the gym at work 2-3x a week, 3-3.5 miles was my usual, at a slowish pace.

    We moved to Belize in August, and I realized I wouldn't be able to do the long road rides that were my fitness mainstay in North Carolina. We do have bikes, but they're beach cruisers for the sandy roads and beaches here, and there are very few paved roads where we live.

    So I started up running again. It was intensely hot when I started, back in September, and I started with very short, slow runs. At times I could barely make 1.5 to 2 miles, because it was so hot and sunny, even very early in the morning. I felt like my heart was going to fly right out of my chest. I was not acclimated to the heat/humidity at all, even after living in NC. But I made a habit of running three mornings a week, and as of today, finally have hit the five mile mark again! And I did my first-ever 5K back in November. I wasn't fast (30:28 was my time), but I finished, and I was pretty proud of that!

    I read Chi Running and several of John Bingham's running books (http://www.amazon.com/John-Bingham/e/B001ILIFC0) and all were super helpful. I don't push myself to go too fast or too far, and I have managed to completely avoid injury despite never having a formal shoe fitting, gait analysis, or coach. I do feel fortunate for that, especially since all of these things are probably near about impossible to find where I live now.

    I guess the purpose of my post is just to encourage you not to give up. Just last week, I was berating myself for not being a real runner, whatever that is, as I just barely pushed out a 3.75-mile run. But this morning I did 5.1 with ease, and I realized that the difference was the weather (sun/heat last week vs. overcast/cool today). Today I felt like a runner!

    Running is definitely not easy -- if it were, everyone would do it. But if you stick with it, don't try to do too much too soon, there's a good chance you'll eventually come to enjoy it. I know I felt on top of the world today both on and after my run, and it's made me all the more enthusiastic and itchy for more. So, like cycling, running really can get under your skin, as GLC's post also illustrated. It can become fun and something you look forward to.

    Good luck!
    Emily

    2011 Jamis Dakar XC "Toto" - Selle Italia Ldy Gel Flow
    2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 WSD "Gloria" - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow
    2004 Bike Friday Petite Pocket Crusoe - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575
    Thanks again for all of your inspirational stories and words of wisdom.

    I ran again yesterday for the first time since I injured myself. I disregarded everything that I read from the "experts" and just let my body do what it wanted to do - no focus on leaning, no gait corrections, no altering the way my feet landed, and my body was happy. I'll continue running "naturally" as I build up distance and speed slowly, very slowly.

    I'll never be a "runner" but after reading all of your stories, and experiencing a modicum of success yesterday, I have faith that I can become a cyclist who also runs.
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Traveling Nomad
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    6,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Artista View Post
    I'll never be a "runner" but after reading all of your stories, and experiencing a modicum of success yesterday, I have faith that I can become a cyclist who also runs.
    Don't say that, Artista! You set yourself up for failure when you talk to yourself that way. Sure, you may never be a *strong* runner, or as serious about running as about cycling, but a runner you are. Already.

    Glad you had a better run by not overthinking!
    Emily

    2011 Jamis Dakar XC "Toto" - Selle Italia Ldy Gel Flow
    2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 WSD "Gloria" - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow
    2004 Bike Friday Petite Pocket Crusoe - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    if you're running you're a runner. It doesn't matter how much or how fast you move. If you're moving faster than a walk, then you're running.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    2,041
    Quote Originally Posted by Artista View Post
    I'll never be a "runner" but after reading all of your stories, and experiencing a modicum of success yesterday, I have faith that I can become a cyclist who also runs.
    I know what you mean, I feel the same way.
    2009 Trek 7.2FX WSD, brooks Champion Flyer S, commuter bike

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575
    Quote Originally Posted by Melalvai View Post
    I know what you mean, I feel the same way.
    Yeah, I think that a person has to enjoy running to consider themselves a runner. I'm open to the possibility that I could learn to enjoy it but I'm not quite there yet. I'll take my satisfaction in enjoying having run for the time being
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    WA, Australia
    Posts
    3,292
    Quote Originally Posted by emily_in_nc View Post
    Running is definitely not easy -- if it were, everyone would do it. But if you stick with it, don't try to do too much too soon, there's a good chance you'll eventually come to enjoy it. I know I felt on top of the world today both on and after my run, and it's made me all the more enthusiastic and itchy for more. So, like cycling, running really can get under your skin, as GLC's post also illustrated. It can become fun and something you look forward to.

    Good luck!
    Emily is right running really does get under your skin. I started trail running last winter and although I still find a majority of my runs really hard work I could not give them up now. I never thought I would feel the same passion for trail running as I do for cycling but I had to admit to myself the other day that I do.
    The most effective way to do it, is to do it.
    Amelia Earhart

    2005 Trek 5000 road/Avocet 02 40W
    2006 Colnago C50 road/SSM Atola
    2005 SC Juliana SL mtb/WTB Laser V

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575
    A modicum of success today! I've been doing the short intervals at the beginning of my C25k program but I realized that it's going to take me forever to get though the program if I run only once every 10 days or so.

    We've been doing a few minutes of running in our fitness classes and it hasn't caused me any problems. I decided to bump up to the 3 minute runs in my program today and it didn't kill me! My legs were a little tired but didn't hurt. My breathing was heavy but I could have gone farther.

    I'll use the program to bump up gradually from here. But 3 whole minutes of running without stopping! I feel like I'm getting somewhere now
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    2,041
    It's like paying off the mortgage, it takes forever at first to get anywhere! Good work!
    2009 Trek 7.2FX WSD, brooks Champion Flyer S, commuter bike

 

 

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