paleo diet question

[MojoGrrl]

I think I'll talk to my vet about options again. My dog is very eldery, 16 years old, and so far seems to need a very bulky diet or she has issues. I feed her a fair amount of canned pumpkin which she really like and seems to help. But she has been struggling again lately.

I don't know so much about feeding dogs, but I found tons of info about rawfeeding cats on the internet. There is a Yahoo newsgroup "Rawcats" and there is a companion one, "Rawdogs" or some name like that. It seems like a lot of people have negative experiences with vets regarding raw diets: a lot of vets disagree with them and push the commercial food, particularly the "prescription" diets. I think the pet food industry (including the medical "prescription" Science Diet) is just as bad as Big Pharma in terms of influencing the profession. I am a firm believer that animals should be fed as they are evolved to eat, and luckily my vet was supportive of putting Little Kitty on a raw diet.

[shootingstar]

It's why I hesitate to even use the word paleo in casual conversation anymore!

Labels for a diet aren't always useful, since sometimes people cannot faithfullly follow a 'type' of diet for the next.....few decades, unless they are celiac or diabetic, etc.

Even the vegetarians I know face to face, have modified their diets over the years.

[goldfinch]

I don't know so much about feeding dogs, but I found tons of info about rawfeeding cats on the internet. There is a Yahoo newsgroup "Rawcats" and there is a companion one, "Rawdogs" or some name like that. It seems like a lot of people have negative experiences with vets regarding raw diets: a lot of vets disagree with them and push the commercial food, particularly the "prescription" diets. I think the pet food industry (including the medical "prescription" Science Diet) is just as bad as Big Pharma in terms of influencing the profession. I am a firm believer that animals should be fed as they are evolved to eat, and luckily my vet was supportive of putting Little Kitty on a raw diet.

Unfortunately, dogs were evolved to be dogs, with the hand of man substantially involved. I am still not convinced at all that raw feeding is appropriate for dogs, especially my elderly dog, but I need to read more on what might be best for her. I started here:

To begin with, the concept of “evolutionary nutrition” ignores the simple fact that taxonomy and phylogeny are not destiny, nor do they reliably predict the specific details of a species’ biology, including its nutritional needs. Sure, dogs are in the order Carnivora, but so are giant pandas, which are almost exclusively herbivorous. Functionally, dogs are omnivores or facultative carnivores, not obligate carnivores, and they are well-suited to an omnivorous diet regardless of their taxonomic classification or ancestry.

Domestic dogs did branch off from a wolf ancestor, and current DNA evidence suggests this occurred some 100,000-135,000 years ago.2,3 Though the data are unclear as to what morphologic or ecological changes might have occurred following this initial divergence, and while it is likely that there was much ongoing genetic exchange between dogs and wolves even after they diverged, it is still the case that dogs have not been wolves for a very long time. However, a distinct phenotypic divergence of dogs and wolves followed the development of more sedentary agricultural habits by many human groups some 10-15,000 years ago, which placed new selection pressures on our canines companions.31 Since then numerous anatomic and behavioral changes that have occurred first as a result of living with humans and sharing our food. And even more dramatic changes have been wrought on dogs in the last about 3000 years as a consequence of intensive selective breeding. Domestic dogs exhibit many features of neoteny, the retention of juvenile characteristics into adulthood. They have smaller and less robust skulls and dentition, and numerous features of their skeleton, GI tract, and other anatomic structures are significantly different from wolves.

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http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...make-you-barf/

Cats, I don't have a clue.

[Owlie]

It makes more sense that cats would benefit from a raw diet, since they're obligate carnivores.
I imagine it's one of those things: Some dogs probably do quite well on a raw diet (of some kind) if its human does their homework, and some may not. Depends on the dog--I've met one that will turn its nose up at meat and will go absolutely crazy for fruits and vegetables.

[MojoGrrl]

I am still not convinced at all that raw feeding is appropriate for dogs, especially my elderly dog, but I need to read more on what might be best for her.

Yeah, like I said, I don't know so much about dogs. I know dogs are not obligate carnivores and can live on all kinds of different food, whereas cats absolutely need meat. I don't think dogs need an all-raw diet, but I do think that 99% of commercial pet food is crap. Neither dogs or cats should eat a diet of dried kibble; it resembles nothing in nature they are evolved to eat. My mom feeds her dog a home made diet based on a mix she buys commercially and cooks with water (it's like an oatmeal kind of stuff, with dried veggies and stuff in it), and adds some veggies (canned green beans), cooked meat (usually ground turkey), and raw eggs. He's a very spry and healthy 12-year-old dog.

[TsPoet]

Yeah, like I said, I don't know so much about dogs. I know dogs are not obligate carnivores and can live on all kinds of different food, whereas cats absolutely need meat. I don't think dogs need an all-raw diet, but I do think that 99% of commercial pet food is crap. Neither dogs or cats should eat a diet of dried kibble; it resembles nothing in nature they are evolved to eat. My mom feeds her dog a home made diet based on a mix she buys commercially and cooks with water (it's like an oatmeal kind of stuff, with dried veggies and stuff in it), and adds some veggies (canned green beans), cooked meat (usually ground turkey), and raw eggs. He's a very spry and healthy 12-year-old dog.

Unless your dog has been off raw too long and is sensitive, it is the way to go. But, dogs also need veggies - their stomachs aren't as used to processing veggies - so you need to grind the veggies up. The bones are also important, meat, veggies, bones all ground up. I feed my guys raw for dinner and kibble for breakfast. This makes me feel like I've covered the bases.
I have a 12-15 year old mutt (my avatar is really old!), he was dragging and looking old and I was concerned for him - so nearly 4 years ago I investigated, then started feeding raw. He acts younger now, 4 years later, than he did before raw! His fur is better, as is my shiba-x fur.
My IG has perfect teeth - IGs don't have good teeth - I honestly believe its the raw.
I have lots of friends who use this site when picking food.
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dry/
My guys ether get Evo or Blue Buffalo, and since i primarily feed raw beef, they get salmon or lamb dry food.
I tried making my own raw, and that didn't work for me (yuck!). So, I investigated raw food and, if you live in the Pacific NW, this stuff is great.
http://www.columbiarivernaturalpetfoods.com/
wish they had more veggie options.

[TsPoet]

Unfortunately, dogs were evolved to be dogs, with the hand of man substantially involved. I am still not convinced at all that raw feeding is appropriate for dogs, especially my elderly dog, but I need to read more on what might be best for her. I started here:

To begin with, the concept of “evolutionary nutrition” ignores the simple fact that taxonomy and phylogeny are not destiny, nor do they reliably predict the specific details of a species’ biology, including its nutritional needs. Sure, dogs are in the order Carnivora, but so are giant pandas, which are almost exclusively herbivorous. Functionally, dogs are omnivores or facultative carnivores, not obligate carnivores, and they are well-suited to an omnivorous diet regardless of their taxonomic classification or ancestry.

[/I]
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...make-you-barf/

Cats, I don't have a clue.

yeah, and this all applies to humans as well, IMHO.
But, I like this discussions here about stripping down your diet the building it back up. TE folks are smarter than my grunting CF friends, who get very angry with me when I try to tell them about their paleo diets.