paleo diet question

[goldfinch]

Supposedly you are to use Ghee instead of butter. I use butter, but sparingly. I follow the diet pretty closely. I think the thing that makes it work is the low carbs plus the fat - you feel full and happy all day even without the quick fix sugar rush from the carbs. I have to be really careful when I cycle because if I start eating carbs again, it can be hard for me to stop. Thank goodness the holidays are almost over.

I started eating this way though because I found out I have celiac disease and a friend introduced me to it. Now he's trying to get me to go completely raw... and I just don't think I have the time or energy for that. This works for me. I've never felt so good in my life.

And while the dogs are not wolves (and thus humans are not cavepeople) argument is totally valid - as a side point, they have also found that high protein diets in dogs (and cats especially) with low carbs and no grains are better for them too. Especially seniors - they used to feed protein/fat restricted diets to seniors but lo and behold now we have found that they actually need more protein and fat to maintain muscle tone and brain function.

I just want to be as healthy as I can for as long as I can with as few drugs in my system as possible.

Interesting about the dogs. My elderly dog has an irritable bowel and I worry about her getting enough protein on the bulky diet that she seems to need.

[GLC1968]

About the dogs...two months after we started eating paleo, we switched our dogs to a grain-free food. We had already switched to a high end food, so the grain-free version was only a slight step up in terms of cost for us. It's expensive, but the dogs are so clearly thriving on it that we feel it is worth it.

Both dogs have lost weight without any need to restrict their eating. They LOVE the food and gobble it up even near the end of the bag where that wasn't the case before. And the part that is truly amazing to me is that our oldest dog (who is only 7, so not really OLD) has had hip problems his whole life and he has recently started to improve. We considered surgery about 5 years ago, but decided to try glucosamine for a bit instead. It helped him, he didn't seem to be in pain and he got around ok so we kept up with it. Since he's been paleo? No need for the supplements anymore! He's even MORE active now without the pills. I really think it's the diet (and partially, the weight loss). He appears so incredibly healthy and vibrant now. We've even transitioned our new puppy to the puppy version of the food too.

[Veronica]

Our kitties went paleo three years ago because Tucker was a fat one year old with no energy. He's still a bit tubby, but has LOTS of energy!

Veronica

[Crankin]

I keep toying with this, too.
I wouldn't have a problem with giving up dairy, as long as I could find a sub for the good cheese I eat for snacks. I don't drink milk.
I *would* find it difficult to not have whole wheat grains some of the time. I have pretty much cut out most white flour stuff and I hardly eat dessert. But, I do eat Luna Bars for snacks on work days, because they are easy for me to eat in the car! I love good whole wheat bread or bagels. Don't eat tons of it, but...
Don't think I could give up wine.
About 8 years ago DH wanted to lose some weight before we went on vacation to AZ. I supported him by doing a low carb/low glycemic eating plan for 3 months. We weren't super strict, but we did pretty well, after the initial 2 week period that was very hard. I lost 5 lbs and DH lost 10. I don't work out at the same level as some of you, in that I am not "training" for events, but I do do something 6 days a week. Is it worth it? My weight is fairly stable, but I'd love to get it down another 2-3 lbs., so I have more wiggle room.

[OakLeaf]

Try Lära Bars, they are grain free. I avoid Luna bars because of the processed soy protein anyway.

I'd like to do more raw and less grain, but not make a radical change all at once. Ack, I don't do New Year's resolutions! Why can't I be thinking of this last month or next month.

[lph]

I'd like to do more raw and less grain, but not make a radical change all at once. Ack, I don't do New Year's resolutions! Why can't I be thinking of this last month or next month.

Because most changes that stick aren't radical resolution-type ones anyway. You just happen to have the time to think them over around now.
I like to have New Year's plans rather than resolutions. As in, in 2012 I'd like to try x, y or z. I can start today or tomorrow or in May or September, or later, or never. Or a little now, and a little more later...

[malkin]

It always seems to me that the point of any Diet with a Name is to sell books and other products.

[uk elephant]

For those of you surprised at how well your cat/dog does on the high protein diets, can I just point out that these are carnivorous species evolved to eat other animals not plants. Cats are more obligate carnivores than dogs, they do not have the enzymes necessary to fully digest starch. Humans on the other hand are evolutionarily omnivores, like pigs, evolved to eat anything available both animal and vegetable in origin. The trick is finding the right balance. And from the little experence I have of anthropology, I don't think paleolithic people necessarily got it right all the time either seeing as many of the remains found show signs of disease, malnutrition, stunted growth...

[MojoGrrl]

Interesting about the dogs. My elderly dog has an irritable bowel and I worry about her getting enough protein on the bulky diet that she seems to need.

I have a cat who had terrible irritable bowel issues when I first got her, so I put her on a raw meat diet. Cleared that problem right up! These days I'm too lazy to keep up the raw diet but I only feed her canned food that is all meat, no grain or fillers. It costs a lot but she does okay on it.

[goldfinch]

I have a cat who had terrible irritable bowel issues when I first got her, so I put her on a raw meat diet. Cleared that problem right up! These days I'm too lazy to keep up the raw diet but I only feed her canned food that is all meat, no grain or fillers. It costs a lot but she does okay on it.

I think I'll talk to my vet about options again. My dog is very eldery, 16 years old, and so far seems to need a very bulky diet or she has issues. I feed her a fair amount of canned pumpkin which she really like and seems to help. But she has been struggling again lately.

[MojoGrrl]

I think I'll talk to my vet about options again. My dog is very eldery, 16 years old, and so far seems to need a very bulky diet or she has issues. I feed her a fair amount of canned pumpkin which she really like and seems to help. But she has been struggling again lately.

I don't know so much about feeding dogs, but I found tons of info about rawfeeding cats on the internet. There is a Yahoo newsgroup "Rawcats" and there is a companion one, "Rawdogs" or some name like that. It seems like a lot of people have negative experiences with vets regarding raw diets: a lot of vets disagree with them and push the commercial food, particularly the "prescription" diets. I think the pet food industry (including the medical "prescription" Science Diet) is just as bad as Big Pharma in terms of influencing the profession. I am a firm believer that animals should be fed as they are evolved to eat, and luckily my vet was supportive of putting Little Kitty on a raw diet.

[shootingstar]

It's why I hesitate to even use the word paleo in casual conversation anymore!

Labels for a diet aren't always useful, since sometimes people cannot faithfullly follow a 'type' of diet for the next.....few decades, unless they are celiac or diabetic, etc.

Even the vegetarians I know face to face, have modified their diets over the years.

[goldfinch]

I don't know so much about feeding dogs, but I found tons of info about rawfeeding cats on the internet. There is a Yahoo newsgroup "Rawcats" and there is a companion one, "Rawdogs" or some name like that. It seems like a lot of people have negative experiences with vets regarding raw diets: a lot of vets disagree with them and push the commercial food, particularly the "prescription" diets. I think the pet food industry (including the medical "prescription" Science Diet) is just as bad as Big Pharma in terms of influencing the profession. I am a firm believer that animals should be fed as they are evolved to eat, and luckily my vet was supportive of putting Little Kitty on a raw diet.

Unfortunately, dogs were evolved to be dogs, with the hand of man substantially involved. I am still not convinced at all that raw feeding is appropriate for dogs, especially my elderly dog, but I need to read more on what might be best for her. I started here:

To begin with, the concept of “evolutionary nutrition” ignores the simple fact that taxonomy and phylogeny are not destiny, nor do they reliably predict the specific details of a species’ biology, including its nutritional needs. Sure, dogs are in the order Carnivora, but so are giant pandas, which are almost exclusively herbivorous. Functionally, dogs are omnivores or facultative carnivores, not obligate carnivores, and they are well-suited to an omnivorous diet regardless of their taxonomic classification or ancestry.

Domestic dogs did branch off from a wolf ancestor, and current DNA evidence suggests this occurred some 100,000-135,000 years ago.2,3 Though the data are unclear as to what morphologic or ecological changes might have occurred following this initial divergence, and while it is likely that there was much ongoing genetic exchange between dogs and wolves even after they diverged, it is still the case that dogs have not been wolves for a very long time. However, a distinct phenotypic divergence of dogs and wolves followed the development of more sedentary agricultural habits by many human groups some 10-15,000 years ago, which placed new selection pressures on our canines companions.31 Since then numerous anatomic and behavioral changes that have occurred first as a result of living with humans and sharing our food. And even more dramatic changes have been wrought on dogs in the last about 3000 years as a consequence of intensive selective breeding. Domestic dogs exhibit many features of neoteny, the retention of juvenile characteristics into adulthood. They have smaller and less robust skulls and dentition, and numerous features of their skeleton, GI tract, and other anatomic structures are significantly different from wolves.

* * *



http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...make-you-barf/

Cats, I don't have a clue.

[Owlie]

It makes more sense that cats would benefit from a raw diet, since they're obligate carnivores.
I imagine it's one of those things: Some dogs probably do quite well on a raw diet (of some kind) if its human does their homework, and some may not. Depends on the dog--I've met one that will turn its nose up at meat and will go absolutely crazy for fruits and vegetables.

[MojoGrrl]

I am still not convinced at all that raw feeding is appropriate for dogs, especially my elderly dog, but I need to read more on what might be best for her.

Yeah, like I said, I don't know so much about dogs. I know dogs are not obligate carnivores and can live on all kinds of different food, whereas cats absolutely need meat. I don't think dogs need an all-raw diet, but I do think that 99% of commercial pet food is crap. Neither dogs or cats should eat a diet of dried kibble; it resembles nothing in nature they are evolved to eat. My mom feeds her dog a home made diet based on a mix she buys commercially and cooks with water (it's like an oatmeal kind of stuff, with dried veggies and stuff in it), and adds some veggies (canned green beans), cooked meat (usually ground turkey), and raw eggs. He's a very spry and healthy 12-year-old dog.