Well I might be joining the peri club!

[Dogmama]

Growing up with alcoholic parents is anxiety provoking. Their primary relationship is with their bottle, not you. My parents were alcoholic & drug addicted. When I hit perimenopause, it was like the flood gates opened. After trial & error, I found a good therapist whom I continue to work with.

I also have a board certified psychiatrist who prescribes my med. Mental health is just as important (if not more so) than physical health. I would not ask my PCP to do heart surgery.

"Natural" vs FDA - I used to work with Andy Weil. He would tell you that FDA medicines have their place. We don't know enough about brain chemistry, so it's all trial & error. I tried herbs & they didn't work for me, but they must work for some people. I felt like I "caved" when I started FDA drugs, but when I began to feel better, it didn't matter anymore.

Back to my original reason for posting, though, don't discount living with alcoholic parents. It affects us profoundly and on many levels. Al Anon is good if you can find a good group. Unfortunately, many of them want to be victims & they don't move out of their pain. My mantra is: "My parents may have made me crazy - but now it is MY insanity. What am I going to do with it?"

[Crankin]

Thank you.
This advice is so much more meaningful coming from another person in the same situation, rather than from a professional.

[Irulan]

Ditto on dogmama's succint post.

[shootingstar]

Hmmmm.

Goldfinch, I appreciate how important the scientific evidence is for validated medical treatments. But if someone does get better permanently or gets relief for several months because of a placebo effect AND the treatment is not rip-off expensive/won't bankrupt the patient or is subsidized, then ok.

I am certain now when my father gives the ok for chemotherapy for his prostate cancer, he will deteriorate and never return to his health now. I think what is keeping him afloat now and probably for next few months, alot of it is psychological now. The physicians (including my sister who is one) have left this decision entirely up to him and no pressure for chemo.

It truly is amazing how one's attitude and psychological equilibrium can have such a powerful effect..in staying alive.

As for Brandi, I second counselling. With the right therapist, you won't regret it.

[OakLeaf]

Sorry.

Let me put it more politely: "Evidence" that holds the experience of the patient as irrelevant is not an adequate foundation for practice. It may contain important building blocks, but when information derived from patient experience is expressly rejected, then it has no business creating patient experiences. This isn't number theory or theoretical physics. This is human beings' lives.

Every acupuncture doctor I know has a far higher opinion of north/western medicine than I do, and there's a reason for that: they work with medical doctors, while I worked with patients. Medical records and client interviews tell a very different story than cells under a microscope do.

[pll]

OakLeaf: A good doctor will take the patient experience into account. However, large medical trials show whether something can work or not, and they keep track of adverse effects. If you will, a large trial should will provide systematic evidence about the average effect (wash away placebo effects that may enhance the effect of a drug, or idiosyncratic reactions). That is the kind of evidence and information I want from doctors before tinkering with my system in any way. Something may not work for me, but at least it should have a reasonable chance of working and not just rely on anecdotal or incomplete evidence.

[goldfinch]

Oakleaf, absolutely the individual's own experience must be considered. Sometime I would like to hear more about issues you have heard from patients that have caused them or you to distrust their medical providers.

I actually have some mixed feelings about use of placebos. I can imagine circumstances where a placebo treatment is innocuous and even a bit helpful. After all, putting a band-aid on a child's skinned knee makes the child feel better. You paid attention to the child. You did something. A good placebo.

However, I do not have mixed feelings about the extensive resources that are poured into types of treatments that do not work, which involve clearly deceptive claims, which are scientifically unsound but are presented as if they were sound, and which have harmed people, such as through misdiagnosis and failure to get treatments that work. I do not want to search for truth in a hall of mirrors, where subjectivity is confused with objectivity.

In the face of lack of evidence for things like acupuncture some practitioners have argued that it is the power of the placebo we need to harness. But the problem is that for objective physiological outcomes there usually is no placebo effect. The effect appears limited to subjective, nonspecific effects. For example, there was a study comparing objective and subjective responses to placebo treatment for asthma, as compared to using an asthma drug. Only the drug improved lung function. But those who had the placebo reported subjective improvements significantly greater than the no treatment group. They felt better but they were not better. The study is discussed here: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...os-and-asthma/

So, another risk. You get a treatment you believe in strongly and you feel better. But you are not better.

Well, I'll sign off now as I am starting to ramble and I am tired.

[missjean]

Brandi, you say "heart palps (which I have had for years but have been worse since Aug of this year)" Having had your blood tests, you might already know the answer, but just in case - I was having *lots* of heart beat irregularities that my regular Dr didn't seen very worried about. It was getting worse & worse and I was getting very worried.

I went for an annual check up with my GYN and told him about very heavy periods, (but not about the heart issues, I figured it was the wrong end of the body for him to have an opinion about.) He took blood and I found out I was very anemic. I started on iron pills and to my surprise, the heart issues have almost completely gone away.

I did some on-line research and found out that along with the usual symptoms of anemia, such as fatigue; heart irregularities, and thinning hair (which was also happening, and has stopped) can happen.



.

[Brandi]

Brandi, you say "heart palps (which I have had for years but have been worse since Aug of this year)" Having had your blood tests, you might already know the answer, but just in case - I was having *lots* of heart beat irregularities that my regular Dr didn't seen very worried about. It was getting worse & worse and I was getting very worried.

I went for an annual check up with my GYN and told him about very heavy periods, (but not about the heart issues, I figured it was the wrong end of the body for him to have an opinion about.) He took blood and I found out I was very anemic. I started on iron pills and to my surprise, the heart issues have almost completely gone away.

I did some on-line research and found out that along with the usual symptoms of anemia, such as fatigue; heart irregularities, and thinning hair (which was also happening, and has stopped) can happen.



.

My blood test w as both my regular gp and my gyno. They both put what tests they wanted. I am already feeling calmer. I have been feeling good. But looking into talking with someone and still going to my acupuncturist, Going to see how that goes. But seriously feel better. Still tired though.

[owlice]

What goldfinch said. Seriously, look at evidence, not claims, facts, not fiction. And Brandi, from what you've posted, it seems to me your mind is definitely not open... to evidence, anyway.

Also sick of pseudoscience,
Owl

[pll]

I will echo what owl said -- be open minded.

I will also second the idea of talk therapy. It is a hard thing to do, but you reap the rewards in the long run. Some years ago, I needed to get through a rough spot. A friend (a pediatric psychiatrist) recommended a psychiatrist that was very good: she did talk therapy and was into all kinds of alternative therapies. I am the nightmare customer for doctors because I am not a believer in pills (or herbs), so we tried a number of alternatives between pills and types of therapy. For me, cognitive behavioral / talk therapy worked best. <life would be easier if I could enjoy some placebo effect.>

My point is that you can find a well qualified therapist. In my case, I found the perfect "bundle" of therapy and competence writing prescriptions. Having the same person do both was great as we started every meeting with an assessment of how the medications were working. I also worked with her in discontinuing them gradually,

Indeed, we know very little about brain chemistry and there is a lot of trial and error, but at least one part of medicine has a measure of scientific testing.

[OakLeaf]

Well it *has* been a long holiday, hasn't it.

I too am sick. I am sick of doctors taking advantage of a gullible old woman and a delirious old man to torture my father to death. He deserves very little, but he deserves a better death than he is getting from them. Any human being does.

I am sick of the practice of medicine bearing more resemblance to "The Old Woman Who Swallowed A Fly" than to anything any rational person would voluntarily choose.

And I am sick of "religions" of all kinds (doctrines that theirs is the One True Belief System) that would rather destroy a thing than learn about it.

[goldfinch]

Well it *has* been a long holiday, hasn't it.

I too am sick. I am sick of doctors taking advantage of a gullible old woman and a delirious old man to torture my father to death. He deserves very little, but he deserves a better death than he is getting from them. Any human being does.

I am sick of the practice of medicine bearing more resemblance to "The Old Woman Who Swallowed A Fly" than to anything any rational person would voluntarily choose.

And I am sick of "religions" of all kinds (doctrines that theirs is the One True Belief System) that would rather destroy a thing than learn about it.

I am very sorry about your father.

Believe me, I have educated myself on acupuncture and several other altmed practices. I never, but never, simply want to destroy something rather than learn about it. Never. I just a lot of questions and follow the evidence.

[beccaB]

Well it *has* been a long holiday, hasn't it.

I too am sick. I am sick of doctors taking advantage of a gullible old woman and a delirious old man to torture my father to death. He deserves very little, but he deserves a better death than he is getting from them. Any human being does.

I am sick of the practice of medicine bearing more resemblance to "The Old Woman Who Swallowed A Fly" than to anything any rational person would voluntarily choose.

And I am sick of "religions" of all kinds (doctrines that theirs is the One True Belief System) that would rather destroy a thing than learn about it.

I'm with you on that one. My relationship with my savior is personal to me and I chose to worship in the way I see fit. After all, my savior was able to reach me in the way that was right for me. I am from a diverse mix of religions. Some Jewish and even possible some Mennonite way back. Of all people I completely respect diversity and personal choice.

[beccaB]

Oh, and I haven't had a period in 5 months. After a lifetime of every 28 days almost to the HOUR, amazingly, the last 2 years were very weird and irregular with cramps coming back into the picture. I hope the period is gone for good. I'm 50, and I'm not sorry to not be having them anymore. (hopefully!) I have had a few mild hot flashes, and have dealt with anxiety in the past and have the tools to deal with it now. I went through a pretty bad experience this past spring that lasted until the fall, and I came out on top of that one. I think I'm liking this 50 thing, except for the arthritis part, which may be related more to structure than age.