Occupy Wall Street -- just venting

[pll]

Here's a tribute to the "feminine of the protest", from the Italian newspaper La Repubblica ("Occupy Wall Street, the outrage is a woman"):

http://tv.repubblica.it/dossier/indi...na/78372?video

[owlice]

I'm sure you're right.

The whole thing must have been faked. This kind of thing just doesn't happen in America.

BTW, she was charged with "resisting arrest." And as you pointed out earlier, she clearly was not resisting.

Thank goodness for British online newspapers, or I wouldn't have known anything about this.

Knotted, why are you being so snotty? Of course things like this DO happen in the US -- I never said otherwise. What, you think I've never seen a protester arrested? Or for that matter, been a protester myself?

I raised the possibility of staging because videos ARE sometimes staged. It's good that you followed up; I was out riding, so didn't, but I'm glad you did. Thanks for that.

[KnottedYet]

Knotted, why are you being so snotty?

Because I'm a boor and a sh*thead and foully angry at how that woman was treated.

Sorry.

[owlice]

'sokay; that was not like you at all. And yeah, she was treated badly. I doubt the charge will stick; good thing she reacted the way she did rather than the way I would have (which would have involved pain for one or more).

And you are not the names you called yourself. Sheeeesh!!!!!

[PamNY]

Right now, some of this Occupy stuff seems like mob rule. .

It's definitely mob rule in NYC, albeit a fairly benign mob (at the moment anyway).

OWS agreed w/local officials to limit drumming to two hours a day -- quite a few of us are close to going mad from listening to drums all day. It was part of the deal to keep OWS in their current location.

After eight hours of drumming, I went over to complain. Couldn't find the "community liaison" they promised to have available at all times, but I was welcomed warmly by a guy at the information desk. Most of the protesters are also sick of the drums, but because it's a leaderless democracy, they can't really stop it. They were thrilled for a complaining resident to show up.

Someone found a guy from the security committee, and off we went to the drum circle. This was right after their donation of Ben and Jerry's ice cream was delivered, and the security guy continued to enjoy his ice cream all the time I was there.

After much discussion, waving of arms including the ice cream cup, and screaming, the drummers refused to stop. The security guy called out "mic check" which means he wanted to speak, but he was drowned out when fans of the drummers started chanting "We are the 99 percent." Apparently the 99 percent simply MUST drum, or at least the drum circle lovers think so. OWS security guy threw up his hands (one of which still held ice cream) and told me to talk to the cops.

I did so, cops said they couldn't help. The local official who brokered the drumming limit deal is my new favorite pen pal.

A great anecdote I heard: when the mayor visited, someone offered him a joint.

[PamNY]

This is a photo of the most committed drummer expressing his opinion of the "Good Neighbor" agreement which limits drumming to two hours a day.

He's kind of a scary guy -- actually threatened a woman who asked him to abide by the time limit. Told her he was going to "personally remove" her from the park.

Needless to say, I'm sending this photo to the city official who brokered the "Good Neighbor" deal.

[shootingstar]

I do have a strong opinion about Wall Street in general:

It is terribly true that the corporate world is treated well by the tax man.

People who have never worked closely with tax lawyers, may be surprised to know how large corporations hire tax lawyers to formulate complicated tax planning strategies to reduce their corporate tax payment to the government...and alot of it is legitimate because that's why they hire a tax lawyer(s) and accountants, to interpet the complicated tax legalese in the Internal Revenue Code (US) or the Income Tax Act (Canada).

So I might not be out there marching, but don't believe the whining of the corporate world that they are paying "too much" tax.

part of all this problem is that when proposed changes to corporate tax law are publicly introduced, very few laypeople can fight it, because you have to have detailed knowledge of ...tax law, one of the most technical areas of law (after a building or fire code).

I was a tax law librarian ....

[PamNY]

part of all this problem is that when proposed changes to corporate tax law are publicly introduced, very few laypeople can fight it, because you have to have detailed knowledge of ...tax law, one of the most technical areas of law (after a building or fire code).I was a tax law librarian ....

That's true of much legislation affecting business -- it's hard to understand, hard to get people to pay attention, hard to communicate, and hard to compete with lobbyists (not sure if lobbying is a big factor in Canada, but in the US it is).

[PamNY]

If that's real, yes, that's very upsetting. It might be staged, though; notice it wasn't a police officer -- or at least, didn't appear to be -- who first grabbed her. Also, her reaction seems... strange to me. If some random guy grabbed me as she was grabbed, I would be fighting back and telling him to get his hands off me (perhaps in language that we characterize as "car words" around here ) and yelling for the cops.

My question is: was this woman one of the protesters, or was she simply a regular customer who refused to be intimidated by OWS?

If the latter, something needs to be done to warn people of when and where these marches are taking place. I'm fairly sure OWS is being allowed to march without permits. Normally, if a big protest is going on, we know about it and can avoid it. But this random nonsense is different -- on Saturday, I ran into them twice: once walking my dog, and once going grocery shopping. I'm really annoyed that I have to bring ID to walk the dog -- but it is prudent, and I'm doing it.

I'm sending this video to the many city officials with whom I am now in regular communication. Is this going to happen to me the next time I go to CVS?

Knot, thanks for posting this. I can use it as a starting point to object to the city allowing marches without a permit, and to argue for a notification system for local residents.

"Car words" -- I love it.

[pll]

I can use it as a starting point to object to the city allowing marches without a permit, and to argue for a notification system for local residents.

Hmm. I normally would not chime in, but it seems to me that we are on a slippery slope regarding civil rights in this country (starting with what is now the excuse of terrorism). I would no advocate for a government to be in charge of approving of marches and demonstrations, which, incidentally, might be directed at that government. It sounds totalitarian to me, anathema to freedom of expression. [However, I think that the "drum circles" are plain nonsense and a nuisance.]

[PamNY]

Hmm. I normally would not chime in, but it seems to me that we are on a slippery slope regarding civil rights in this country (starting with what is now the excuse of terrorism). I would no advocate for a government to be in charge of approving of marches and demonstrations, which, incidentally, might be directed at that government. It sounds totalitarian to me, anathema to freedom of expression. [However, I think that the "drum circles" are plain nonsense and a nuisance.]

Oh, no, it's a perfectly legitimate question for me to pose. I'm not asking for new laws -- I'm just asking about the ones that already exist. I don't know the laws in detail, and it's appropriate for city officials to explain them to me. Most demonstrations or large group gatherings require permits -- so that streets can be closed, police can be deployed to facilitate and control traffic, etc.

In a crowded city where every square inch of space is fought over, some controls are necessary. For example, I am invited to a hawk-watchers picnic in Central Park. I must be sure to RSVP because if more than 20 people come, we need a permit from the Parks Dept. We can get the permit -- the government isn't trying to stop us watching Palemale. It's just a question of managing the limited space available.

Yes, people have the right to protest. But I also have the right to walk my dog, to go shopping, to ride my bicycle over the Brooklyn Bridge -- without the fear of being trapped in a mob. We are certainly accustomed to managing marches and demonstrations where I live. However, protests normally last for one day. The difference in this case is that people have moved in. Our tiny and much beloved local park has been effectively rezoned as residential, and there is no end in sight.

It is the government's job to balance competing interests. All I'm doing is reminding them of what my interests are.

[grey]

Hmm. I normally would not chime in, but it seems to me that we are on a slippery slope regarding civil rights in this country (starting with what is now the excuse of terrorism). I would no advocate for a government to be in charge of approving of marches and demonstrations, which, incidentally, might be directed at that government. It sounds totalitarian to me, anathema to freedom of expression. [However, I think that the "drum circles" are plain nonsense and a nuisance.]

I'm with you. I think the Founding Fathers and Sons of Liberty would be appalled to see what counts as 'freedom' these days.

[KnottedYet]

I'm with you. I think the Founding Fathers and Sons of Liberty would be appalled to see what counts as 'freedom' these days.

USMC Sergeant Shamar Thomas seems to have something to say about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O2WZ...&feature=share

[Jolt]

Yes, people have the right to protest. But I also have the right to walk my dog, to go shopping, to ride my bicycle over the Brooklyn Bridge -- without the fear of being trapped in a mob. We are certainly accustomed to managing marches and demonstrations where I live. However, protests normally last for one day. The difference in this case is that people have moved in. Our tiny and much beloved local park has been effectively rezoned as residential, and there is no end in sight.

Well said. I give you credit for dealing so well with this situation...I'm not sure what I would do. It's one thing if there's a demonstration going on for one day, but it sounds like they are really intruding on the daily life of the neighborhood in this case. It also sounds like it has the potential to become (well, it probably already is) a major safety/security issue...I feel like it's only a matter of time before a riot starts down there. I don't trust big crowds like that AT ALL nor would I be able to put up with the constant noise.

[PamNY]

The legal issues are interesting. Here is a piece from New York Law Journal about occupation of the park:

http://www.newyorklawjournal.com/Pub...612&slreturn=1

These links give information about time, place and manner restrictions on protected speech:

http://www.answers.com/topic/time-pl...r-restrictions

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...lacemanner.htm

http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Time,_pl...r_restrictions

This is NYCLU's guidance on demonstrating in New York City:

http://www.nyclu.org/content/know-yo...-new-york-city