Women in Sci-Fi and Fantasy/Game of Thrones

[Irulan]

I'm curious if there's anyone else here who doesn't care much for Tolkien. I mean - he was a visionary, he created a wonderful, incredibly detailed world and history and people and language and all, but the writing to me is boring, flat and very dated. (Besides there being almost no women in it at all.) When people rave about LOTR I tend to say I'd love it if only he'd found a better writer I wonder if it's because I read a lot of other fantasy before reading Tolkine, so by the time I got to reading "the original", as it were, it sounded like a cliche.

My earliest and strongest fantasy reading experience was the Narnia books. I still love them

Dan Simmons' Hyperion books are also very good. But very different, a bit unsettling in their horror approach.

Pardon me for semi-hijacking the thread away from women in fantasy. I just don't get to talk about my favourite genre very much!

I agree with you about Tolkien being dated, but as a great intro to Fantasy for young adults, it's awesome. And as the originator of this thread, author suggestions and comments are welcome. Anyone else on Goodreads, btw?

[Catrin]

I agree with you about Tolkien being dated, but as a great intro to Fantasy for young adults, it's awesome. And as the originator of this thread, author suggestions and comments are welcome. Anyone else on Goodreads, btw?

I guess it is just personal regarding Tolkien, he is my favorite in the entire genre, bar none. Recently found a collection of his unfinished short stories and found them delightful

It is great to read about other suggested authors and series, there is a lot out there. I will carefully avoid mentioning my love of mysteries outside of just mentioning it

[OakLeaf]

I can't speak of Tolkien with any semblance of objectivity, because the Lord of the Rings was what I had at a very vulnerable and troubled time in my life. That said, as a lover of language, his creation of languages remains amazing to me - even though I still find it odd that he had the Rohirrim speak Anglo-Saxon rather than creating a language for them too. Apparently they were the "hook" that tied his academic work (which, as you probably know, he was a renowned scholar as well) to his own inner fantasy life.



But nobody's mentioned Ursula LeGuin yet??? Probably the first writer to bring feminism into the mainstream of FSF? (Okay, I totally had not heard of The Wild Girls before I just now checked out her website, and it's on my to-read list now...)

[lph]

I love Ursula leGuin! I was just going to shut up a little Great writing.

[Crankin]

OK, just as I thought...
I'm weird in my reading tastes.

[Catrin]

OK, just as I thought...
I'm weird in my reading tastes.

I doubt that, we are just an eclectic group of women with definate reading tastes - regardless of which genre we prefer

[Cataboo]

OK, just as I thought...
I'm weird in my reading tastes.

Prob not. I just think most people who dislike scifi/fantasy didn't open this thread based on the title. It's kinda like opening the paddling pics thread to post... "is it just me, or am I the only one who doesn't care for paddling?"

[Titania]

I love Sci-Fi and Fantasy both. Both genres definitely have their fair share of crap, though.

I don't find George R.R. Martin's treatment of women disturbing, personally. There are several strong female characters, and I think the tone fits the medieval setting. Let's face it, women weren't worth anything in the eyes of men back in those days. To have a medieval setting and have some sort of egalitarian social structure would seem fairly odd to me.

If you're looking for a fantastic author who is also a devoted feminist, look no further than Sherri S. Tepper. Her book "The Gate to Women's Country" is both one of the most disturbing and uplifting fantasy books I've ever read.

Another sci-fi writer with strong female characters is Ann Aguirre.

Werewolf/vampire/undead, etc modern fantasy books are my guilty pleasure. I could go on and on about some of the authors I enjoy in that genre.

[Irulan]

I love Sci-Fi and Fantasy both. Both genres definitely have their fair share of crap, though.

I don't find George R.R. Martin's treatment of women disturbing, personally. There are several strong female characters, and I think the tone fits the medieval setting. Let's face it, women weren't worth anything in the eyes of men back in those days. To have a medieval setting and have some sort of egalitarian social structure would seem fairly odd to me.

If you're looking for a fantastic author who is also a devoted feminist, look no further than Sherri S. Tepper. Her book "The Gate to Women's Country" is both one of the most disturbing and uplifting fantasy books I've ever read.

Another sci-fi writer with strong female characters is Ann Aguirre.

Werewolf/vampire/undead, etc modern fantasy books are my guilty pleasure. I could go on and on about some of the authors I enjoy in that genre.

Hah, I recall The Gate to Women's Country exactly the same way as you do: It blew my mind. Too bad the author's other works were to me very disappointing.

The "medieval" society presented in Jaqueline Carey's various Kushiel/Namaah trilogies is very egalitarian.

[skhill]

Ursula LeGuin might just be my favorite author ever. Loved her books when I was in grade school, and still do.

Has anyone else read any Octavia Butler? Definitely strong female characters there...

Thanks for this thread, btw. A friend had been encouraging me to read Martin's series, and if I do I know a little more of what to expect.

[tangentgirl]

I had to scroll past some of this quickly, because I haven't read DwD yet, but, on George RR Martin and the Ice & Fire books...

I like his female characters. A lot. SPOILERS HERE

Arya is my HERO. If I ever had a daughter, that name would be a strong contender, along with Lyra (Golden Compass). And maybe Keala (Kennely, the badass surfer chick in the real world). But I digress. Talk about a mean little survivor.

Danerys? Getting rid of her abusive brother? Becoming this legendary queen? Awesome.

Cersei - so ridiculous and evil and a terrible leader, but Martin really explains how she is who she is in part because she was marginalized.

Brienne - Brave, both in battle and out. She is who she is despite every single thing being against her.

I haven't read the rape/rough sex scene described at the beginning of this thread, so it's hard to comment on it. However, horrible things happen to lots of characters throughout these books. It's not like Martin is focusing on objectifying women in particular. If he had been, Sansa would be pregnant with Tyrrian's second kid by now, cause Tyrrian wouldn't have had any qualms about *ing his hot 13-year-old bride.

***
Other FSF female awesomeness...

+1 on Octavia Butler. And Terry Pratchett and Phillp Pullman.

Margaret Atwood. Her futures scare the bejezzus outta me.

Vernor Vinge's Rainbow's End has a wonderful main female character. Then again, I'm biased, I love that book to pieces. His future is actually gonna happen.

Connie Willis! Hooray for Connie Willis and her time-traveling heroes, female and male. I wish her futures would happen. I'd like to be a historian.

Anyone read the Soulless series by Gail Carriger? Steampunk vampire werewolf hilarity, with a wonderful woman at the lead.

I'm surprised we haven't gotten a mention of Marion Zimmer Bradley here and The Mists of Avalon, her re-imagined Camelot from the women's point of view. I found those characters frustrating, but the idea of turning The Once and Future King (which I also love) on its ear is pretty cool.

Finally, this is television, but Battlestar Galactica and Kara Thrace. The new Starbuck kicked so much @$$ that the old Starbuck got jealous and threw an internet hissy fit. Hooray for new Starbuck!

Ok, time for me to go play World of Warcraft. Peace out.

[Irulan]

After reading that blog entry on the female scorecard of GOT, I'll never be able to look at it the way you do.

MZB should get a passing mention. Mists of Avalon was a terrific, ground breaking book. Too bad all the follow ups (before and after) plus her other semi-historical/fantasy fiction (Fall of Atlantis etc ) was total crap. The Darkover series, her contribution to the sci-fi world was really hit and miss in the quality of the fiction; mostly hit but again, I'm surprised an editor let some of that stuff through.

Diana Paxson anyone? Again, a little hit or miss.

Now getting off the female track, anyone into world building/alternate history? I think Kim Stanley Robinson is a genius.

For sheer entertainment SM Stirling's Nantucket/Change books are a lot of fun. Some of them are like a train wreck ( so bad you should stay away) but the entertainment values, assuming you set your plausibility meter to "zero" and just go along for the ride, are unparalleled. And he does better women characters than a lot of authors in the field. At times they are all so silly it doesn't matter. The Change series has been really entertaining as it's set in my little corner of the world, and I have physically been to many of the locations referenced in the books.

[TrekDianna]

Connie Willis! Hooray for Connie Willis and her time-traveling heroes, female and male. I wish her futures would happen. I'd like to be a historian.

The Doomsday Book - one of my all time favorites