Why do your people have seasons?

[channlluv]

Cool, Roxy! I don't have any season stories from you, but your post got me thinking...are there any Native American season stories from California, where we don't have seasons to the degree that other places do? Is the perception of four seasons the same around the world?

Exactly the kind of thing I was wondering about and why I'm writing this book proposal. I think it would be interesting to juxtapose the actual science against the regional mythology about seasons.



Roxy

[tytbody]

i'm not sure about your title. Kinda bothers me. I think because I worked in a place where there was this woman that would always say *your people*. I'm like, *what is... Your People.*. You may not have intended this to cause riffling of feathers, but I'm just saying. I don't like it. I'm not of the main races and when I see words like that, it doesn't feel so good.

So, I believe we all have seasons. I believe people have seasons also even if they don't live where the seasons change. We as women, have seasons, every month.

[redrhodie]

I wish I could remember some related Russian Folklore.

Baba Yaga would eat small children. I remember that! I feel like there was a story where someone's tears became rain or snow, but it's so vague. It could also be something from Grimm or Aesop, if I'm not just making it up.

Oh, and I think Roxy is referring to your culture or heritage in an anthropological way. We all have people.

[Trek420]

I see words like that, it doesn't feel so good.

+1. I hope that's not the title of the book I've learned in my work that any conversation that begins "You people ...." is going to get real bad real fast It hints some huge generalization is going to follow.

Plus who are "my people"? Many of us are blended somehow. I'm Jewish and that is very important to me. Also I'm both Russian and Polish. My sister's Norwegian, one niece lives in Wales now, another lives here with her partner and two amazing beautiful "toddlers of color"

So when I'm in the supermarket "ethnic food" aisle exactly what is the food of "my people" ? For many of us it's a mix.

[Biciclista]

I can only imagine what it was like for the ancestors who watched the sun slowly set further and further south until one day it turned around and came back north... once more, the days would get longer and warmer.

[lph]

Still not directly to do with the why of seasons either, but anyway: the Vikings had a "blót", i.e. sacrifice, several times a year to the gods, one in midsummer, one after the harvest season to thank for a good harvest, and most importantly one around the winter solstice, "jól", for the harvest season to come. Blót is related to blood, which they drank. Christmas is still called "jul" here, from pre-Christian times. You can find details on Wikipedia more than I know

But a funny spinoff is the tradition that still exists of putting out a bowl of porridge (thick, creamy rice porridge, good stuff!) to the "nisse" at Christmas. Today Santa Claus is also called a nisse (julenissen), but the original nisse was a small grey-bearded elf living in the barn, the guardian of the household, and the porridge was his traditional sacrifice. If you didn't put out porridge for him he could think up all kinds of mischief on a traditional farm, sour the milk, lame the cows, stuff like that. Nothing large and magical like affecting the seasons though.

[channlluv]

I am completely loving the folklore. Thank you for sharing, Red, Alexis, LPH, and others to come, I hope. Mimi, that very line of wonderment is going into the introduction.

Tytbody, you're right. I didn't mean to riffle feathers. I apologize if my choice of wording rubbed you the wrong way. It absolutely was not intended to do so. My whole point is to share the cultural narratives of the various regions where seasons have contributed to the stories, or where stories have built up around the seasonal changes. I do see your and Trek's point, though. It might have come across differently if we were speaking in person and you could see my face and hear the tone of my voice. But, yes, by "your people" I really do mean your ethnic background. Not in a negative way, though. (Not "You People.")

Red was right -- I meant this in an anthropological way for the purpose of writing a book for children celebrating different regions'/cultures' stories about weather, so I'm asking in the most geographically diverse community of which I'm a participating member for leads to go research. That's all. I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear in my initial post.

I'd still love to hear your weather-related mythology, legends, and folklore if you have any you'd care to share. I'll research all of them and get some authoritative sourcing and credit every story shared with a "special thanks to..." note. I'm looking forward to learning about all these cultures in more detail.

And Trek, no, definitely not the title of the book. Right now the working title is Why Do We Have Seasons?, but that will likely change. It's aimed at kids ages 8 - 12.

I'm also working on a book about animal artists -- animals that paint in zoo and sanctuary settings, and another about ghost hunting, and my next one is on the history of mermaids. If anyone has any cool mermaid mythology for your region...that's next. Seriously.

Roxy

[KnottedYet]

How are you planning to make your books stand out from the myriad of others on the same topics? Ya gotta have something unique. I'd narrow the focus down to something local (San Diego old-timers' weather myths. San Diego mermiad stories. San Diego ghost hunters. Animals painting in zoos in Southern California.)

It's a bunny eat bunny world.

Oh, and do give Mimi full credit for the lovely sentence she wrote.

[Trek420]

Oh, and do give Mimi full credit for the lovely sentence she wrote.

Yes do. I hope she copyright it.

I'm lucky to have a Mom who's gardened/farmed the same region since the 40's. She's very aware of changes in the seasons. Sometimes this is with concern such as noticing certain wild flowers would always bloom in a field at this time before, now they are late. Often it's just knowing that now is the time to plant or sow or that crops are doing better this year.

I can imagine long ago as days got shorter and shorter that the children of "my people" may have been puzzled, or even alarmed. But a grandparent knowing that the seasons will change again might have explained why.

That's kind of the thought bubble that occurs

For my people, it's the section with canned cream of mushroom soup over hamburger and frozen peas. Sacred food of my ancestors.

Since I bat for the other team it's the aisle with Perrier and Greek yogurt. but from an ancestry point of view the kosher food aisle.

[tytbody]

Tytbody, you're right. I didn't mean to riffle feathers. I apologize if my choice of wording rubbed you the wrong way. It absolutely was not intended to do so. My whole point is to share the cultural narratives of the various regions where seasons have contributed to the stories, or where stories have built up around the seasonal changes. I do see your and Trek's point, though. It might have come across differently if we were speaking in person and you could see my face and hear the tone of my voice. But, yes, by "your people" I really do mean your ethnic background. Not in a negative way, though. (Not "You People.")


Roxy

Very good explaination. I understand now.
I don't think we have a special *season* cause if we did, I guess I would have understood where you were coming from in the get.

Now you see, you'll have to make sure you make that title so all of us adults and grandparents will want to pick it up.

LPH - loved your story/information.

Do you think a Nisson came from Nisse?

On the food aisle, I thikn they should just put a spice witha spice and a juice with a juice. Why keep segregating. If the grocery store is for all then put all the food togethter.

Now I can see them putting organics with organics but just because there is Goya beans and some other beans, it should just be the bean aisle.

[Sardine]

channlluv, I'm from Southeast Asia originally. This discussion reminded me of the 'Mooncake' festival or mid-autumn festival celebrated in many countries in that region. By the way, it's about to take place soon. The stories behind it are not about why seasons change but it is a celebration that takes place when the moon is supposed to be at its brightest and most beautiful, and some of the myths seek to explain this. The other main story explains the tradition of marking the festival by exchanging 'mooncakes'. Hanging up and carrying lanterns also form part of the celebrations.

These are the two stories that I recall very vaguely from childhood about this festival, which to be honest, was not of significance to us but an excuse for a celebration. The first relates to a moon goddess of fairy. All I can remember is my grandmother telling me stories about this but I don't recall the stories themselves. The second one was about people wanting to overthrow the ruler of China and hiding messages in cakes during the moon festival. That was about as much as I could remember so I did a Google search to check my memories. Here are some links that will give you more information if this is of interest:

http://www.journeymalaysia.com/MCUL_midautumn.htm (There are also useful Singaporean sites but the stories related in this one are closer to my own memories)
http://chinesefood.about.com/od/moon...onfestival.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Autumn_Festival

[PamNY]

I'm also working on a book about animal artists -- animals that paint in zoo and sanctuary settings, and another about ghost hunting, and my next one is on the history of mermaids. If anyone has any cool mermaid mythology for your region...that's next. Seriously.
Roxy

Oh, do we have cool mermaid -- well, maybe not mythology, but something fun. I'm not sure if the annual Mermaid Parade in Coney Island is what you are looking for, but I can tell you that traveling on the subway with people dressed like this is a riot.

[channlluv]

Geemonetti, Pam, that is funny. This is an annual event, huh? I would love to come and take my own pictures...these may not be, um, age-appropriate. <g>

Shootingstar, thank you for that link. I have so much good reading to do! I think I'm going to go join the UC San Diego research library, too, but these links are very helpful as I'm putting together the book proposal itself. It's morphing into seasonal myths versus just how the seasons happened myths. If the book doesn't sell, I'll have lots of good material for articles for kids' magazines.

LPH, I think I want to come visit Norway and just spend a season traveling and listening to your local storytellers. I've never heard any of these.

Crazycanuck, it's like that here in San Diego, too. We have Rainy Season, which is about six days sprinkled across November and December, sometimes January, and Fire Season, which is the rest of the year. Although the last couple of days have been weird. Yesterday and into this morning, it was 60 and a light rain was falling. As I type this, at 2:45 in the afternoon, it's 100 degrees and sunny. Go figure.

Thanks again, everyone, for the stories.

Roxy

[channlluv]

Still not directly to do with the why of seasons either, but anyway: the Vikings had a "blót", i.e. sacrifice, several times a year to the gods, one in midsummer, one after the harvest season to thank for a good harvest, and most importantly one around the winter solstice, "jól", for the harvest season to come. Blót is related to blood, which they drank. Christmas is still called "jul" here, from pre-Christian times. You can find details on Wikipedia more than I know

But a funny spinoff is the tradition that still exists of putting out a bowl of porridge (thick, creamy rice porridge, good stuff!) to the "nisse" at Christmas. Today Santa Claus is also called a nisse (julenissen), but the original nisse was a small grey-bearded elf living in the barn, the guardian of the household, and the porridge was his traditional sacrifice. If you didn't put out porridge for him he could think up all kinds of mischief on a traditional farm, sour the milk, lame the cows, stuff like that. Nothing large and magical like affecting the seasons though.

LPH, did each house have an individual guardian or was the nisse part of something larger, like my Catholic neighbor two doors down who had an icon of Mary in the flower bed by her front door, but Mary is Mary regardless of which house's garden her statue is standing in...the same being watching over different households.

What if the house didn't have a barn? Are there different guardians for townspeople? How was this nisse related to the family? Like, in Thailand some families have spirit houses outside the main house for the spirits of their ancestors, and in China, some families keep shrines to their ancestors inside their homes. Are the nisse attached to the family or the place? If the family moves, does the nisse move with them?

I can go read all of this on Wikipedia, I'm sure, but it's more interesting coming from someone who actually lives in the culture.

Roxy

[lph]

Are the nisse attached to the family or the place? If the family moves, does the nisse move with them?

Oh, every house had it's own nisse. This dates from a time where every house had a barn. Or at least a woodshed, or some other kind of outhouse. Norwegians have traditionally lived on each their own farm, preferably on each their own hilltop, at best within waving distance of neighbours... I wasn't sure, but my dh is certain - the nisse was "stedfast", i.e. place-fast, i.e. attached to the place. Unrelated to the family. The guardian thing was only when he was in a good mood, he could be quite grumpy, but could be placated with small gifts.

In the 18th century many people truly believed in the nisse (no, I didn't know that, I looked it up), and that they were warding off bad luck by giving him porridge. I found a story about a servant girl who played a trick on the nisse by hiding the butter "eye", the pat of butter supposed to be on the top, at the bottom of the bowl and the porridge on top. The nisse was infuriated and struck down the farm's best milk cow. He then ate the porridge and found the butter at the bottom. He regretted what he'd done, and replaced the cow with the best milk cow from the neighbouring farm...

And there's a wellknown expression about "nissen på lasset", the "nisse in your belongings", which means not being able to escape from a vexing problem. It comes from a story about a farmer with a particularly mean nisse who tried to pack up and move from his farm, but the nisse hid in his belongings and just turned up at the next farm he moved to.

Actually I've used that when I'm having trouble with my bike and just can't figure out what it is. I have a nisse in my wheel...

btw: I'm blended too. To me it just means I have more "people" to choose from