Bike Fit/LBS/and Regrets

[Catrin]

Secondly - have anyone here spent $1000+ or even $1500+ (i'm just pulling numbers out of my hat) on a bike from one LBS, and after several different fittings, and going to another LBS and being told that the bike is too big/too small and regret for buying that bike? What did you do to remedy problem? Did you wait a while before buying a new bike?

Yes, my very first ever bike was a 2010 Trek 7.6 F.X. I learned how to ride on that bike... While I had the smallest version Trek made, in the end it was simply too big for me. I could ride shorter distances on her (<20 miles), but it became sheer agony to ride further than that. I took it to another LBS with a fantastic fitter and he broke the bad news to me. I knew nothing about bikes, or riding so I did not know the right questions to ask. Did they sell me the wrong size deliberately? Of course not, but part of that was also my responsibility for not exploring different sizes in other bikes or stores. So I've chalked it up to experience, but won't return to that store for another bike. Other things, yes, but not bikes.

Thankfully by that time I already had a second bike that I had purchased from the same LBS. They weren't able to adjust it properly so I could actually ride it...but the second (and my current) LBS was able to do so. I must be fair and say the LHT was the proper size - but I had gone to another LBS first to get a second opinion on the proper size before ordering it. My fitting problems with the second bike had nothing to do with the size of the bike but certain physical limitations I have.

It isn't a given that WSD works for all women, and different bike manufacturers mean different things when they call something WSD, or Femme, or something similar. I've learned that I don't really benefit all that much from a WSD design, neither my LHT nor mountain bikes are WSD, and my Gunnar is a full custom design so it actually is a Catrin-Specific-Design

Steel doesn't have to be heavy, and steel frames are much lighter than they once were. The higher-end steel bikes with better quality steel are quite light. My Gunnar is nice and light and rides like a dream.

[KnottedYet]

All my bikes are steel.

Their frames run 4 to 5 lbs each.

What you put on the frames (especially the wheels) has a lot to do with the final weight of the bike.

And if you've got components and bars you like from the old bike that doesn't fit, the shopping gets easier. Bare frames are pretty affordable, and my LBS (bunch of enablers) told me it would be less than $200 to switch parts from one frame to another. Except I've got this cockamamie idea of spending the dark winter days building a bike myself... and I already have too many bikes.

FWIW: Aluminum gives me road buzz, and the carbon I tried felt "dead" and creepy. Try every material, every style, every brand. Ride lots! You never know what you'll discover.

[Kubla]

Thanks for some of the insights, keep 'em coming.

I don't even know if I can sell my current bike...it's very rare that I see anyone selling a Jamis...besides, although my fiance ain't too happy about my feelings of regret, he doesn't want me to buy it "used" or off eBay...I'm drooling over one 2010 44cm Jamis Xenith on ebay that's under $900...the components can be replaced, the frame size cannot....that's the KEY (a shout to Goldfinch). You can remove EVERYTHING from your bike, replace everything, but you cannot change frame size. If you want to buy a carbon bike...go for it...if there's Tigra or Sora parts on 'em, who cares...save up your buckaroos, and get Ultegra or Dura-Ace or SRAM or even Campnologo components down the road.

Hope that kind of clarify my story up a little bit....

CyborgQueen, you shouldn't have much trouble selling your Jamis. I have a Coda Sport and an Aurora (both steel frames) and love these bikes. While they aren't as widely-known as some of the other brands, they definitely have their following.

[indysteel]

Thanks for some of the insights, keep 'em coming.

I had no idea about WSD bike fit and such...it was more of an impulse quick buy as the LBS was having a huge sale, and I got $400 off the bike. I have Jamis Ventura Elite in 48cm. Full Ultegra components, and Alu/Carbon mix. If I've gotten Cannondale/Specialized/Trek/Giant with the SAME components and frame material, I would have to spend nearly $800 to $1000 more. Hence why I went with Jamis...plus I like the simplicity of the design...unlike Trek bikes where you see "Trek" stickers everywhere...that drives me batty, but the DuoTrap is very cool.

I was "sized up" when I first shopped around, and was told that this bike is perfect. I trusted him because he was recommended. I wished I went to ALL of the shops, but I only went to three of them. One of them had Specialized, but didn't have any in stock in my size and weren't too helpful. The other shop had a HUGE shop...sells Cannondale/Trek, but too out of my price range, and the guy that I spoke with wasn't too helpful either. Too bad because I met the owner, and he's super nice...I didn't know.

BUT...as time gone on...this was two years ago, so I HIGHLY doubt that Jamis can do anything about it or the LBS that I bought it from...so I'm SOL. I would LOVE to buy a frame from Jamis. Everyone oohs and ahhs over my bike because there's a slew of Cannondale/Specialized/Treks in this town....I met like 3 people so far that has a Jamis in the past two years. I would LOVE it even more if Jamis can just take my old frame and give me a new one with a lower cost. I can just transfer over my components as they're still in a great shape. Jamis - where are you?! :-P I *should* have been recommended the Femme version.

I had my handlebars replaced to a narrower one - didn't have to happen if I bought a WSD bike. The brifters are on the large side. It's okay and tolerable when I shift. I have gotten used to it, but looking at everyone else's they shift so easily, while my wrist has much more movement on the left. Di2 anyone?? :P The WSD Specialized Ruby (the only reason why I'm bring this up is because that's what my current fitter showed me to compare to mine), has Egro handlebars, and the shifters are closer to the drops. Much easier for people with small hands like mine. I can't brake in the drops currently...can't reach 'em, even with shims.

The main issue was the headtop tube length. It is too long. The stem is as short as my fitter can do it. Everywhere I ride...there's hills....1% to 5% grades. I struggle so hard on 'em and sometimes I feel like I'm not getting any better than I did last year. So a better Seat Tube angle will help that (my 74 degree vs 76 degree on Jamis Xenith Comp) as well as smaller crank arm.

My fitter has set up my bike currently enough that I can get comfortable, but he feels that I would be way more comfortable and powerful in a more smaller performance built bike over a relaxed/fitness geometry. So while I have my bike to be for fitted, I have pangs of regrets and wanting to buy a new bike, especially after hearing how he can pretty much promise me that I'll be much more comfortable and better climbing in the long run.

I don't even know if I can sell my current bike...it's very rare that I see anyone selling a Jamis...besides, although my fiance ain't too happy about my feelings of regret, he doesn't want me to buy it "used" or off eBay...I'm drooling over one 2010 44cm Jamis Xenith on ebay that's under $900...the components can be replaced, the frame size cannot....that's the KEY (a shout to Goldfinch). You can remove EVERYTHING from your bike, replace everything, but you cannot change frame size. If you want to buy a carbon bike...go for it...if there's Tigra or Sora parts on 'em, who cares...save up your buckaroos, and get Ultegra or Dura-Ace or SRAM or even Campnologo components down the road.

Hope that kind of clarify my story up a little bit....

Short of buying a new bike, I'd offer the following suggestions with respect to your current bike. First off, bars and brifters can be swamped out for something that works better for your hands/shoulders. Plus, brifters can often be adjusted to narrow the reach. Yes, these changes may cost some money, but you might talk to the shop where you bought the bike to see if they might give you a bit off any new items. Tell them what problems you're having with the current set up.

As for your seat tube angle, do you happen to know how much set back your current seat post has? You can make a STA effectively steeper by using a seat post with no set back. Is your saddle pushed all the way forward currently? How tall are you, what is your inseam and would you say your femurs are long or short relative to your inseam?

In looking at the Ventura's geometry, I wouldn't say that bike is all that relaxed. IMO, it's geometry isn't radically different from a lot of bikes on the market. Without knowing more, I'm inclined to be a bit skeptical of what the second shop is telling you. I'm not suggesting that you're imagining your fit issue, but some of the buzz words that your shops is using with you makes me wonder about their assessment.

[CyborgQueen]

Seajay - that's the problem in my perspective. NONE of the shops had 48cm or smaller. So I cannot "test" ride them. The shop where I had my yesterday's fit, had the 44cm. I'll ask him if I can test ride it.

IndySteel - you brought up some valid points. I'll ask my current fitter about the seatpost, and see if a zero setback seatpost will work better.

I'm 5' with 26" inseam (to floor). I would say my femur is about half way. I did measure it, and the knee pretty much is halfway, so it's neither short or long.

I'm slightly inclined to go to the shop where i bought my bike from. I had little issues with them for a while. They have told me a few times to just bring in my bike to get the fork cut down, and it'll take less than an hour. Well, when I brought it in, they said I should have made an appointment. It'll take a week. I asked them if I bring it after the triathlon, they said the same thing, "it'll take a week". Instead, I had a bike builder friend (he does it on the side...for his bikes), to cut it, and it took less than 30 minutes.

Then I asked them about a paint issue, and they just kind of shrugged it off and said, "That happens. Nothing you can do about it. Put clear mailing tape over it to prevent it from getting worse." Really?!

Lastly - when I was saddle shopping, I said, can I test it for a short while, and they said, I'll still have to pay the 15% restocking fee, even if I only used it for one hour. I asked them if I could just feel it on another bike and just ride on the trainer they had inhouse - "uhh, we're too busy". I just wanted to put my butt on the saddle and feel it for about 15 minutes before dropping $$$! There's like 3 customers!

So...I'm not to keen on going back to that shop ever. Kind of odd because some people LOVE that shop, while other people don't, and some people don't like the shop that I frequent at and others love it. I have a feeling that if I go back to that shop, they'll just give me the "you bought the bike. Nothing we can do about it" attitude.

[Caddy]

I would not go back to the shop :/ It doesn't matter how they treat other people, what matters is how they treat you.

Any chance your friend can build a bike for you?

[Catrin]

I would not go back to the shop :/ It doesn't matter how they treat other people, what matters is how they treat you.

Any chance your friend can build a bike for you?

+1,000 on this

If your friend can't build one for you, are there better stores that are in driving distance, perhaps in another town?

[Roadtrip]

To the shops credit, many manufactures do not warranty cosmetic issues, to which to replace the frame would have been at the shops expense. They could have been MUCH better at telling you IMHO and I'd be peeved too. Don't know what brands of saddles they sell, but both Trek and Specialized offer 90 day fit promise, which means it dont "fit" yer heiney you get your money back no questions asked. We're too busy is a bunch of bull too. This sounds like the local "mega" shop here. I did buy a very expensive bike from them, but only because the price was, well... a really good deal and that chain is the only one around here that sells Specialized. I didn't have a problem at all with taking said bike over to the Trek dealer for my service where they have always treated me with open arms.

[CyborgQueen]

To the shops credit, many manufactures do not warranty cosmetic issues, to which to replace the frame would have been at the shops expense. They could have been MUCH better at telling you IMHO and I'd be peeved too. Don't know what brands of saddles they sell, but both Trek and Specialized offer 90 day fit promise, which means it dont "fit" yer heiney you get your money back no questions asked. We're too busy is a bunch of bull too. This sounds like the local "mega" shop here. I did buy a very expensive bike from them, but only because the price was, well... a really good deal and that chain is the only one around here that sells Specialized. I didn't have a problem at all with taking said bike over to the Trek dealer for my service where they have always treated me with open arms.

I agree...they do have various saddles for people to buy, 30 days return, BUT you have to pay restocking fee. I went to another bike shop, returned the saddle...AFTER 30 days, they took it back without question. Bought a new saddle from them (even though I could have gotten it online for nearly half price), and they said if I have problems with it, I can just return it, no questions asked. But damn...I should have asked for a black saddle. Oh well! :-) I can understand the cosmetic issue, but they weren't helpful at all. They could have been more "concerned" and nicer about it instead of just snubbing it off.



The bike builder friend - hmm...he only does steel bikes. ;-) I'll consider it. Need to try the new fit for a while and see what happens. It could be better than what I had, and good enough for now.

[Crankin]

DH just sold both his Jamis Coda Sport and my Coda Femme in about 30 seconds, at his work list serve for cyclists. There were at least 5 people who wanted to buy each of them!

[indysteel]

Eek; you're 5 feet tall and they sold you a 48? I gotta say that that seems a little big to me, too. That's the size Jamis I own (in an Aurora), and I'm 5'4.

[CyborgQueen]

Eek; you're 5 feet tall and they sold you a 48? I gotta say that that seems a little big to me, too. That's the size Jamis I own (in an Aurora), and I'm 5'4.

HA! See my point? It should've been a little bit obvious....whatever.

[CyborgQueen]

GOOD NEWS!!!!!


I emailed Jamis of my plight...okay I didn't exactly give them a life story, but I basically told them that I was 5' shortish legs and gave them a condensed version of how I discovered that I needed a 44 instead.

I totally was not expecting anything....

Heard back from Jamis this morning, and they want to make me happy, so they're going to sell me a frame, they don't normally do this, but they want to make it right...pretty much the exact frame I had - alu/carbon. So I'm not losing anything, but...it's a 44cm Femme frame.

SO...it's not exactly a new bike, but hey, it's the frame in MY size. Once I get all the components over, I should be much more happier and more comfortable. Thank goodness that it accepts 700 wheels...otherwise I'll have to sell my Mavic Cosmic Carbones (I didn't buy it...my Mom did) too.

Thank you KnottedYet for the suggestion!

EDIT: I haven't BOUGHT the frame yet...it comes down to cost. *crossing fingers that it's not that much*

[tytbody]

Wow, Queen. That's awesome news. !!!! so will you have to change over all the components or will you go the bike shop your purchased from? And also good on the wheels.

What state do you live in?

[goldfinch]

Eek; you're 5 feet tall and they sold you a 48? I gotta say that that seems a little big to me, too. That's the size Jamis I own (in an Aurora), and I'm 5'4.

And her inseam is only 26". This does seem to be a sale that should never have been made. I am an inch shorter and a Jamis dealer said maybe, just maybe a 44cm will fit me but it might be too big.

Queen, good to hear that Jamis is willing to sell you just the frame.