Advice needed re obstinent public utility

[laura*]

The water main under our quasi-private street is leaking. The leak has been gradually getting worse for ten plus years. The street is on a hillside, and my house is right next to and downhill from the street. The dampness is recently showing up along my foundation.

I finally investigated the issue. I have a metal detector and was able to detect the iron in a massive comma shaped underground plume of rust. Thus I know where the leak is within one square foot - unfortunately under pavement on neighbors property. I also dug a pit in my yard to confirm dampness.

I went to the rinky dink water company and they essentially blew me off. Yeah right - like a leak from my 25 gallons/day consumption could keep several thousand square feet of hillside damp. In July.

Even a backdoor approach via someone who knows someone has been fruitless.

At this point, I have several choices of how to proceed, among them:

1) Go back to the water company and complain more forcefully.

2) Get a lawyer to write a letter to the water company. (I have a lawyer's contact information.)

Which should I do? I'm not a lawyer using type of person. I'll be happy if they simply stop the leak. However, maybe it is important to start establishing a legal trail. Perhaps when the ground dries out, our road will settle into a sinkhole. My neighbors might want the water company to pay to fix it.

Any advice ladies?

(BTW, lots more details omitted from this post.)

[tulip]

Where I live, the property owner is responsible for water lines under their property. My brother and my mother had to contend with this: the old water lines that go from the street to their houses leaked/burst, and my brother and my mother had to pay for the replacement since the leaks were on private property. Since it's happened to two members of my family within the span of a couple of years, I'm thinking I should sign up for the "insurance" offered by my water utility to cover such incidents. It's only $3 per month. But I'm lazy and have not done it yet.

It would seem to me that if the leak is on private property, then the property owner is responsible for fixing it. If the leak is under the street, then the water company would be responsible for fixing it. If it's under your neighbor's property, and it's not affecting them, but is affecting you since you are downhill, then the neighbor should fix the leak. Whether they will or not is a different question.

At least talking to an attorney would give you the facts of the law and then you could decide how best to proceed.

[Trek420]

Any advice ladies?

Your rinky dink water company is a utility and therefore subject to the rules of the California Public Utilities C. Call, nicely ask for a manager, nicely let them know you'll be lifting this up to the CPUC and "wouldn't you like to just come out, take a look and fix this for me before they have a sinkhole that eats my entire block?"

Don't forget to be nice. Your service rep and then the manager probably get yelled at a lot every live long day and want to help you.

If they still won't then go to the CPUC website, compose a note and cc it to the RDWCo. and your lawyer.

[laura*]

Where I live, the property owner is responsible for water lines under their property.

They made it clear that the water company is responsible up to the meter, and the property owner is responsible beyond that. The meters are nominally at the edge of the road(s).

If it's under your neighbor's property, and it's not affecting them, but is affecting you since you are downhill, then the neighbor should fix the leak.

After my house, the road becomes fully private, but the water main keeps on going. There are actually two mains: Older World War I vintage rusting steel pipes have been partially replaced with new(er) pipes. I think the leak is in the older system, a cross connection between systems, or a defunct stub.

... California Public Utilities C. ...

Oooh! I like this! I bet the CPUC wouldn't be happy to hear the tales I can tell them...

[jessmarimba]

If nothing else works, contact your local news channel or write a letter to the editor of the paper. If they will pick up the issue, it will generally shame the company into paying attention to you.

[indysteel]

It would seem to me that if the leak is on private property, then the property owner is responsible for fixing it. If the leak is under the street, then the water company would be responsible for fixing it. If it's under your neighbor's property, and it's not affecting them, but is affecting you since you are downhill, then the neighbor should fix the leak. Whether they will or not is a different question.

At least talking to an attorney would give you the facts of the law and then you could decide how best to proceed.

This^^^^. Based on the facts you've shared, it's your neighbor who is responsible for fixing it. In my experience, getting a neighbor to fix something on their property that is causing a problem on my property is darn near impossible without either (a) paying for it out of my own pocket or (b) getting an attorney involved. Thanksfully, I am an attorney, so that has sometimes helped in the "negotiations." But, I too, have simply paid out of pocket to get something fixed. In fact, I just recently paid $1600 to have trees removed from my neighbor's property because they were a gateway for raccoons to get onto my roof and into my attic.

Depending on how cordial your relationship, I would approach them with what you've found and see if you can fashion a mutually beneficial solution.

Otherwise, get a lawyer.

[Trek420]

Oooh! I like this! I bet the CPUC wouldn't be happy to hear the tales I can tell them...

they'd be very happy. they
are largely funded by the penalties they collect. "ooh, new carpet for the office".

[laura*]

Based on the facts you've shared, it's your neighbor who is responsible for fixing it.

How so? I'm quite sure the leak isn't in anyone's metered connection.

When you picture "private road", don't think gated community. Instead, think hillbillies blazing paths, building cabins, and laying water pipes willy nilly wherever they can fit with little regard to actual property lines.

they'd be very happy. they
are largely funded by the penalties they collect.

Uh, oh:

Please be aware that the CPUC cannot help you resolve issues with:

* Publicly owned or municipal utilities...

[indysteel]

In your first post, you said the leak you found is "under pavement on neighbor's property." In your next post, you said that the water company "is responsible up to the meter, and the property owner is responsible beyond that. The meters are . . . at the edge of the road(s)." Perhaps, I'm not understanding your posts, but I took you to mean that the leak was on private property, i.e., past the road/meter onto your neighbor's property.

[Trek420]

Uh, oh:

Please be aware that the CPUC cannot help you resolve issues with:

* Publicly owned or municipal utilities...

Ooops. Hopefully you, the neighbor, the water company can all come to a friendly mutually agreeable beneficial friendly agreement and toast each other with a nice glass of water. You might also contact:

http://turn.org/

[laura*]

"The meters are . . . at the edge of the road(s)."

As opposed to: Up against the houses, or in basements as in harsher climates. If this were a planned modern subdivision, the meters would be at about the front property line. In other words, there's no long run of privately installed (and maintained) pipe leading to the meters.

Perhaps, I'm not understanding your posts, but I took you to mean that the leak was on private property, i.e., past the road/meter onto your neighbor's property.

The road at that point is on private property. The presumed leak is under an intersection of sorts.

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I talked to the water company today. They did send someone out. The response essentially was: "We don't know why the ground is damp, but there are no leaks because the ultrasonic leak detector didn't hear anything."

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So I'm onto plans C and D: A ditch between the house and road so the foundation can dry out. And producing actual flowing water from the leak.

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Bringing this on-topic for this forum: After hearing from the water company, I went for a bike ride to blow off some steam. I climbed 500 feet up the hill beyond my house until a locked gate. Coming back down I discovered my folding commute bike doesn't roll as freely as other bikes: It couldn't keep enough momentum to coast through a flat section.

[Biciclista]

boy, that's bizarre. Their incuriosity also surprises me. good luck!