Women-friendly engineering program

[Melalvai]

Thanks for the great suggestions and resources! This is exactly what I was hoping for.

A friend of mine in a CS program told me about going to a competition in another city with her CS club. As they were making plans, she realized that the faculty mentor had only booked one hotel room for the entire club. She asked "Where am I supposed to sleep?" and he looked startled. It hadn't dawned on him that he'd need a 2nd room because he now had a female in his program. (That was actually the least of her problems on that trip, as the faculty adviser didn't go with them, there was drinking, one guy harassed her, and her boyfriend--long since ex now-- was unsympathetic.)

That's a minor example, but that sort of thing adds up and feels very unwelcoming. When I was in the National Guard, for the first few years it was either just me or me and one or two other females. At our 2-week annual trainings, we had the most difficult time finding out anything, like when we were supposed to be where, which uniform, how to get supper. The guys just routinely forgot about us. My dad was the first sergeant, and I was not shy about complaining, so eventually they got a system in place, assigning a female to be present at all the staff meetings (even though she wasn't technically a squad leader), coming down hard on the squad leaders for being responsible for getting the info to ALL of their squad, and more women joined so it was harder to forget about us.

It's all little stuff, and it seems petty to complain about, but it adds up to create an unwelcoming environment. My daughter hates complaining so she puts up with stuff and then avoids going to whatever class or event that has the problem. I know she needs to learn a different way to cope, and I'm sure there will be other petty problems, but I don't want this sort of thing to be what drives her out of engineering or math.

Once she's in the field, and it's still male-dominated, maybe I'm naive, but I think these sorts of things go away at that point. Probably to be replaced by other bigger problems. But by then she's invested several years and gained assertiveness. Or maybe not and she'll resent it forever, who can tell.

[Owlie]

My alma mater, Case Western Reserve (no, it's not a military school--it just has a stupid name), has some solid engineering programs, though its real strength is biomedical. The ratio of men to women is about 3:2, and probably even more skewed in the engineering school, though the breakdown changes by program. (Chemical and biomedical engineering seem to be more even than, say, mechanical or computer science.) There are certainly women in all of them, though. There are also plenty of campus organizations for women in STEM fields.

It's private, but has in the past been pretty generous with scholarships and financial aid.

[indysteel]

The guys just routinely forgot about us. My dad was the first sergeant, and I was not shy about complaining, so eventually they got a system in place, assigning a female to be present at all the staff meetings (even though she wasn't technically a squad leader), coming down hard on the squad leaders for being responsible for getting the info to ALL of their squad, and more women joined so it was harder to forget about us.

It's all little stuff, and it seems petty to complain about, but it adds up to create an unwelcoming environment.

This is what I experienced when I first went into private practice as a lawyer. Law school, itself, was diverse in terms of gender. In fact, I think there were more women than men. And my first job out, as a law clerk to state appellate court, was much the same way. From there, I went to a law firm that, at the time, had about 70 attorneys. For a variety of reasons, most of the young female attorneys that worked there had recently left, and I was the lone female associate for a period of time. There were a handful of female partners, but believe it or not, they weren't that much more supportive than the average male partner.

I felt very alone there. Some of my fellow associates were nice enough, but a frat house atmosphere prevailed. At one point, I caught wind of a summer party that a partner was throwing at his lake house to which I had not been invited. It happened to be the partner whose office was next to mine--the one who never remembered my name. One of the other associates called him out on it and, to my face, the partner explained that he thought I'd feel awkward as the only woman. Well, I likely would have, but thanks for making me feel even worse. This was 1999, so we aren't talking the dark ages of gender equality. I left soon thereafter. I think the firm has improved since this, at least I hope so.

I can tell you this. The mere fact that I had a lot invested in my career at that point did not make the environment any easier. I went into the firm really naively, as I'd otherwise never felt particularly discriminated against as a woman. So, in some ways, it might be better if your daughter faces some of these challenges while still in school. Hopefully, it'll help her develop some constructive ways to deal with it or, perhaps, make her carefully evaluate whether it's something she really wants to do.

[divingbiker]

Many, many years ago I graduated in ChemE from Washington University in St. Louis, not too far from you. Even back then, there were quite a few women in the engineering program, so I don't think it's quite as "male-dominated" as you perceive. Based on the newsletters I get, they still have quite a few women in the program. It's worth checking out.

Other than invitations to AIChE (professional organization) meetings that were postcards with women in bikinis, and suggestive calendars from Ridgid hanging everywhere--all way back in the late 70s/early 80s--I never experienced any problems.

[OakLeaf]

it just has a stupid name.

hijack

Why stupid? I think it's cool that the name recalls the historical period when it was first chartered?

/hijack

[Owlie]

hijack

Why stupid? I think it's cool that the name recalls the historical period when it was first chartered?

/hijack

It is, but it results in everyone who isn't from Ohio thinking it's a military school, which is laughable, considering its student body...
(Especially now that the officially-sanctioned abbreviation is in fact "Case Western Reserve" )

[OakLeaf]

Georgena Terry graduated from Carnegie-Mellon, FWIW http://www.terrybicycles.com/About-Us

[owlice]

My two former sisters-in-law graduated from Carnegie-Mellon, too, and both of them majored in engineering.

[NbyNW]

+1 to check out Carnegie Mellon. I think it might have been one of the first in the country to report that its entering class of engineering undergrads was majority women, only a few years ago. But don't quote me on that!

I was in college (Columbia, NYC) about 20 years ago and we shared dorms with the engineering school. I think they have a chapter of SWE. Back then women were definitely in the minority. Some of the things I heard about were like issues of bathroom equity (number and availability in the building) which I think have since been addressed. I think the numbers have improved, too. I knew students both male and female who switched from engineering to college or college to engineering because of wanting to change their major. There was some paperwork involved, but generally not a problem. I imagine things have changed quite a bit. In general I would say the university as a whole is a good place for women, but you might want to do your research specifically on the engineering program.

If she's interested in disaster relief she might also look at joint degrees or whether any programs she's interested in facilitates study with other departments and schools within the university. Every university is different, and depending on the program, she may or may not have time/flexibility to explore those other interests. I had classmates who did some kind of dual degree or masters program at Columbia's School of International and Public Affairs and later went on to work with USAID, and orgs like that. It's well worth researching whether the schools she's interested has specific programs or partnerships, with other programs, agencies, study abroad, etc., that will help her explore how she can use that degree.

[smilingcat]

Yes Columbia Uni does/did have SWE chapter. If you can survive the engineering school there, you can survive just about anywhere.

So, in some ways, it might be better if your daughter faces some of these challenges while still in school. Hopefully, it'll help her develop some constructive ways to deal with it or, perhaps, make her carefully evaluate whether it's something she really wants to do.

Indy's statement is a sage advice. You have to meet the eventual difficulties head on while still in college. Learn how to deal with it there instead of real life job. This will make it harder on while in college but it will prepare you for the eventual difficulties we all face in real life.

As JFK said, "...and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills..."

[colorisnt]

Wow. Your kid really is a dead ringer for me as a teen - in reverse. I wanted to do nuclear engineering and took nothing but science before switching to poli sci.

I definitely second the Society of Women Engineers.

My mother works in industrial engineering. And she actually prefers to work with men. She is the only woman in her department. I don't actually know how she does it sometimes! Honestly, the reason I didn't do it was not the math or science, but the lack of social contact. Finding a department that works is never simple, but there are ones that work.

I have a friend who is here in nuclear engineering and one in chemical engineering (both women) and they love it here at MU. Yes, there are only a small number of women, but it is growing. There is a chapter of SWE here and they have mentoring and get-togethers. Purdue is another place I have/had friends. Similar situation there.

I like big state schools and the opportunities they offer, so I focused my search mainly on IU and Purdue and Purdue had an engineering school. Rose Hulman is smaller, but WAY worse on the male dominant thing and mom and dad said heck no to the tuition. In the end, I hated Purdue, so I didn't need to break my Dad's heart and go there. The campus was ugly in comparison to IU (the place I had idolized as THE university since a baby) and it was really conservative. Tell her to go visit campuses and realize that she needs a COMMUNITY around her.

Ask lots of questions and I am sure it will work out!

[GLC1968]

Women in engineering varies greatly by the major. I was an EE and there were very, very few women. Computer engineering had more women, Civil even more and Chemical had probably the most at my school...Mechanical? Almost none. Every school has it's specialty, too, so it would help to know what direction she would want to go.

I specialized in RF/wireless engineering because that was what my school was known for and it has since served me very well. Now I recruit for my company from the top RF/Wireless schools and I can tell you, that the top schools in engineering in general do not even make our list as the top schools for our specialty...so school choice/program choice can matter quite a bit. She can get top education at non-top schools (for less than top dollar!) if she can narrow down her direction. Thought I know this is asking an awful lot of an 18 year old (I surely wouldn't have been able to make that choice back then!)!

As far as the best programs for women, I will mention again that it can really vary by major. I definitely second the recommendation to check with SWE (Society of Women Engineers) as they have chapters in every engineering university in this country (and many internationally). If they track this, they'll be a great resource.

[Jserrty]

I am a women mechanical engineer in an Oil and Gas Multinational. Generally, we are treated the same as men. You are expected to know your stuffs and be good at it. But sometimes, we do get the perks from being female. They don't scream at you as loud. :-)

Professional Women Organization

[Grog]

Carnegie Mellon has made conscious efforts, research, and changes in this direction, and it's working (as exemplified by the testimonies on this thread):
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project...www/index.html

[shootingstar]

Jsserty's comment made me laugh.

Have any of you ever worked for a major construction engineering project? Whoaaaaa...

I think it helps for any discipline, to enroll in a university program where both genders are treated well as students and individuals.

But the big factor....is what the woman engineer does after graduation and where she goes to work in her career. Some types of organizations are inherently better than others --- government (I worked for a regulatory agency for a decade, that made a consicous effort to hire top female engineers. So there were 5 women, all different, civil, chemical, mechanical, all great people in a team of 18 engineers) vs. some private sector firms.

The oil firm that my partner spent most his career, made a serious effort to hire female engineers. And over the years, some of these women moved into senior management positions within the firm.

I am not an engineer, but 50% of my career I've had engineers as my client group. One does see certain patterns of promotion, non-promotion, certain types of assignments and stories... Construction engineering project where I was, it would have been tough for a female engineer. Out of 40 plus engineers, none were supervisors nor managers.

Really, it depends where one goes, career-wise.

I forgot --one of my nieces did her degree in geological engineering. (Queen's University, Canada). She works for a software firm that handles technical modelling in the geotechnical field. Their main clients are exploration firms, mining firms, etc. It's a male dominant industry where she is. Her clients are primarily male engineers, geologists, etc.

She is 26 yrs. old.