Saddle Quest 2011

[WindingRoad]

Yeah I wear a 9.5 - 10 street shoe and I actually just increased my shoe size in Sidi's b/c my 41.5's were just not working well. Love those shoes but they kill me after a while. I switched to a 43 but I also like to wear wool socks year round.

[Chicken Little]

Just from reading the post, wine glass in hand, and stabbing in the dark, I think your saddle is too high.
I also think I might be a bit tipsy.

[hulagirl]

Ah-ha! Self measured sit-bones 3 different ways comes out to a nearly spot on 150mm. That's center to center. 105mm closest points and 196 outside points. Geez!

That 138mm has to be way tiny then.

And holding up my paper "prints" shows me that my SI Diva is way thin too. How is this possible? Something aint right here.

Too high on the saddle? Hmm...I'll try to lower it a tad. I begin to get front knee pain rather quickly when I do that.

As for the Brooks: I'm not adverse to trying one. But it wasn't until recently that A) I saw one (not carried in Hawaii) and B) found a place that will allow you to try them. I'm a former horse lady - I KNOW the value of well-broken-in leather.

Not sure why shoe size is an issue. As I mentioned before - I got the numb toes in street shoes, slippers, bike shoes, Keen's, etc.

Thanks Muirenn - I read that thread and is why I posted. ;-) I don't know if I'll go so far as to photoshop all my saddles over each other. LOL!

[KnottedYet]

Knott has a glass of hard cider in hand, so take the following with a grain of salt-

Numb toes: dropped metatarsal head and/or toe box of various shoes is too narrow (though it is happening in Keens, so I'm betting on the dropped met head)

Saddle: your body is crying out for a narrow nose and wide sits.

Solve the toes: go to a good shoe store and ask for metatarsal arch support buttons. They go BEHIND the ball of your foot. Google "metatarsalgia" and "Morton's neuroma" and see if it sounds at all familiar. Also check "hot foot" here on TE. You also may be slightly too high for the way your ankles and feet prefer to work, see below.

Solve the saddle: try measuring your own sit bones. Rolling forward to relieve pressure is often a way of dealing with a too-narrow saddle. As you roll forward you go from the ischial tuberosities (wide) to the pubic rami (narrow) Make sure your saddle is at least as wide as your outside measurements. (A Brooks really needs to be at least 20mm wider than your outside measurements to keep you off of the metal cantle plate of the frame.) If you have a saddle handy that does have the width of your outside measurements, try using it and lowering your saddle slightly and moving it backward slightly. Your body might just prefer to work set back and down a bit (which it is faking by rolling forward as you get on narrower saddles) both for your feet and your buns. If you don't have one, or think your measurements are insanely wide, you probably ought to get one. (my sits are in the 180mm range, you can imagine what a thrill it was to finally find a saddle wide enough!)

Honestly, it doesn't matter why things work, only that they do work. The more you can investigate without spending money, the better. If you have a female fitter I'd suggest going back to her. I've corrected the fits for several women whose male fitters had set them up perfectly... if they had been men. Also, if you do decide to go the Brooks route I strongly recommend Wallingford Bicycle Parts. They have a 6 month free trial period on Brooks saddles. www.wallbike.com

ETA: ah, you measured and posted while I was drinking and posting. I suggest trying a Brooks B67 or Brooks B68 (NOT the B67-S "short" or the B68-S "short"), and don't be afraid to push the saddle all the way back on the rails if you feel like it. With 150mm center measurements, in all likelihood your outside is a good 170 or 180. I measure the bones directly with a tape measure, as I'm not sure the outside measurement can be accurately done with an imprint. (sit on your hands, move your fingertip to the outside of the bone you feel, leave fingers on chair, have someone measure the distance between your fingertips. Or ask someone you trust to measure your heinie directly.)

ETAA: Your experience with horse saddles is a big bonus here. Does it help to know that Brooks bike saddles are based on English horse riding saddles?

[hulagirl]

Knotted Yet - So happy you replied! Did you see my measurements?! Hot diggity dog they are huge! I mean 195-200mm outside points? Wow!

I've attached the "best" print I got. Am I doing this right?



Oh jeez...that image is huge! Sorry!!!

[hulagirl]

I gotta say the "ribbed decking" that I sat on left the best imprint. Perhaps we should add that to a FAQ? LOL! I need to go drink some wine as well I see.

[warneral]

I have wide sitbones and really love my cheap 40.00 planet bike women's ars - http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Bike-50...971178&sr=1-22

For my birthday I ordered the Brooks B17. I know I should have followed these ladies' advice and gone with the B68 but I was afraid it would look huge on my little bike. I'm sure it would since the B17 looks huge LOL!

Alas, my sitbones appear to be hitting the metal edging that the leather stretches over.

I'm considering trying the B68, but then again, I actually really like my planet bike saddle. I rode more mileage than I ever had last year and the saddle kept me from ever having any problems.

[KnottedYet]

I ETA'd my post above a couple times, might want to re-read and see if I added anything since you last read it. (I'm on glass of hard cider #2 now, and can't be trusted a bit!)

Add 20-40mm to your center measurement to guess at your outside measurement, or ask someone to help you measure your outside directly. I really don't trust imprints to do more than give a good center measurement.

Center is a very useful measurement. You want the center of the "cheeks" of a padded saddle to meet your bone centers. You want the outsides of the saddle to match the outsides (or be at least 20mm wider in the case of a Brooks or other suspended leather saddle) of the sit bones.

With a 150 c-to-c, you are going to have a hard time finding a padded saddle with 150mm cheek/dome span, and with a likely 170-190ish outside you are going to have a very hard time finding a wide enough saddle that isn't also insanely padded. (many companies think "wide" also means "super-padded.")

I'd go straight for the gusto and do the free trial on a Brooks B68 (no springs) or B67 (springs). I have both saddles on my various bikes. My favorite is the B67. I like that the springs give just enough under my lopsided pelvis. (they do not bounce, they are very very rigid springs)

[zoom-zoom]

Knot, while I have your cider-infused attention (man, I wish I had some cider right now, too!), can you share some of your knowledge here...

ETA: my goofy Photoshopping to compare the footprint of the Jett 143 to the Donna.

[KnottedYet]

Knot, while I have your cider-infused attention (man, I wish I had some cider right now, too!), can you share some of your knowledge here...

ETA: my goofy Photoshopping to compare the footprint of the Jett 143 to the Donna.

I "doed" it. (too much cider -snort-) LOVE the photoshop! You are awesome!

[ny biker]

Add 20-40mm to your center measurement to guess at your outside measurement, or ask someone to help you measure your outside directly. I really don't trust imprints to do more than give a good center measurement.

Center is a very useful measurement. You want the center of the "cheeks" of a padded saddle to meet your bone centers. You want the outsides of the saddle to match the outsides (or be at least 20mm wider in the case of a Brooks or other suspended leather saddle) of the sit bones.

This explains a lot!! Both the Specialized and Bontrager measuring things indicate I should be on a 145-ish saddle, which made no sense to me because it put the edges of my sit bones very close to the edges of the saddle. I measure about 120-125 mm center to center.

[hulagirl]

Oh man oh man am I going to look silly with a ginourmous Brooks B68 in triathlons! Like wearing a wetsuit for the open water swim in Hawaii! Eeek!

[KnottedYet]

Oh man oh man am I going to look silly with a ginourmous Brooks B68 in triathlons! Like wearing a wetsuit for the open water swim in Hawaii! Eeek!

Hey, I did it with a B67! With SPRINGS! (nobody laughs at you when you pass them...) Besides, your butt covers the saddle if the saddle fits. No-one sees the ginormous saddle under your ginormous... um.... sitbones.

Seriously, you will be much faster if the saddle fits.

If the B68 doesn't fit, send it back to Wallingford and trade for a B17 or something, nothing lost. Bill Laine owns Wallingford, he's a curmudgeon but absolutely a sweetie underneath. Call him if you have troubles that you can't get answers for here on TE.

There are so many of us riding on Brooks saddles that you can probably get your answers here anyway.

And only some of us are curmudgeons.

[TrekTheKaty]

What Knot said. I'm drinking wine;-)

However, as a side--my numb toes came from a back problem--a pinched nerve between lower back and hip.

Did she say Keen sandals? I found them way too narrow.

I also recommend a Brooks.

Bike fits aren't the end all--I started riding farther forward on my bars and tilted my seat down ever-so-slightly.

[hulagirl]

Post Metric Century Update:

(as we are discussing saddles, girlie bits may be brought up, just FYI!)

So, I completed a wonderful Metric Century ride yesterday with my Try Fitness training gals. I rode the Terry Liberator X Gel for the 2nd time ever. It was a very interesting experiment.

First off - we had a horrible head wind for the first 20 miles. Then a cross wind/head wind for 10. We kept a pace-line with 3 minutes at the front and then about 18-20 min in the pack. Heading out we fought to maintain a 15 mph average and were told NOT to go over 16. Gotta work at everyone's abilities, not just your own.

I spent a lot of time in aero/drops when I was rider 1 and 2. Just made life easier all around. And helped keep the hands, arms, shoulders, happy.

So - having lubed up with Hoo Ha ride glide (love that stuff!) I was a happy girl for most of the ride. At around the 25k mark, I was getting an "oddness" down below. It was mostly in the front. Not near the sit bones or even in the middle. Almost felt like things were getting jammed up front. I kept trying to pull my cycling shorts back towards my bum. It was up front in the pubic mound. (Such wonderful names for these things.) 60 miles of mashing that into a saddle has left its toll.

The Terry does have an opening, but due to the cushioning, I think it closes off. The SMP's have a more rigid construction. And the opening does not close. It was wonderfully comfortable for aero and drop riding! But everything else made me cry! But they don't make a wide enough version for me so blah to that!

My LTS (Local tri shop) that this saddle is a demo from (brand new demo too) texted me after the ride asking how it went. I told her the issue and she said I should try to tilt it down just a hair. Which I will. (it's currently level)

Everything else on me - sit bones, rami, etc doesn't even FEEL like I did ANYTHING yesterday. No rawness, no tenderness, no pressure points, NOTHING. Did the saddle "disappear"? Not 100%. Maybe not even 50%. But it was DRAMATICALLY different than the other 6 saddles I've ridden.

And one other thing - there wasn't even a tingle of toe/foot numbness the whole time!

I'm quite happy with my post-ride feelings. I think the (hope) the pubic mound pressure can be eliminated with a down tilt. I have a sprint Tri coming up this Sunday. Short bike ride, but I will spend a lot of the time in aero so I'll see how that goes.

Hopefully this info will assist anyone with my wide-a$$ sit bones.

Denise