OT: Slob

[abuelitodimetu]

I wonder what kind of advice she has to give homosexual couples, given that she seems to have deep-seated views against homosexuality.
I honestly think Dr. Laura has a view of men and women out of the Jurassic era:

"The women who criticize their husbands in the stories that Schlessinger relates are depressed in their marriages and feel little love from their husbands. Unabashedly asserting that man is a "very simple creature," who needs only "direct communication, respect, appreciation, food, and good loving'" to respond with devotion, compassion and love, this controversial marriage and family therapist claims that every woman can achieve a deeply satisfying marriage if she adheres to certain fundamentals men require. Preparing dinner, caring for the children without complaint, greeting her husband with a kiss and engaging in sexual intimacy instead of "tearing down a husband's necessary sense of strength and importance" can result in the harmonious marriage women crave.

In short, spread your legs and keep his stomach full. I'm sorry, her understanding of both men and women are demeaning to humankind. As women in the twenty first century, we owe many of our freedoms to past generations of women who stood up for themselves and fought against "men's sense of self-importance." If it weren't for those women, I would not have many of the choices I have and because of that, I remind Dr. Laura that well-behaved women rarely made history

[betagirl]

Wow, thanks everyone. This thread really took off

Ok first off, we are in no shape or form on the verge of breaking up over this crap. I was venting, though I did ask for advice on how to help a guy figure out how to not be such a slob.

bcipam, I appreciate your advice but it's not really applicable. And well, I'd never buy or read a Dr. Laura book. My mother would listen to her on the radio and I'd just sit and listen to her and scratch my head. I classify her a few levels below Dr. Phil, who's an embarassment to most of the people in the field of Psychology.

So after my big meltdown, which I agree that was brought on by stress, we had a talk the next morning. I think when I get under too much I have a harder time overlooking his messy ways. Anyway, I think he understood a little how upset it made me that he was ignoring/blowing off/whatever you want to call it my reaction to his messiness. You're right, we've lived together a long time and I know this is how he is. But on the flip side, he knows how I am so we need to compromise. And yes, this is a stupid thing to fight over - which I brought up. When I came home that night, the crap all over the counter was picked up and replaced with some flowers.

Anyway, thanks again for letting me vent. And for the tips. He'll "behave" for a while but I fully expect him to lapse. So I'll keep those in my back pocket for next time.

[carimail]

Well, we didn't want to tell you this, but we all chipped in and bought you the flowers...after we all got together and had a cheerful coffee with a friendly debate over the pros and cons of Dr. Laura and her books. Now we are all happy!!

[Selkie]

Beta - Relationships are hard work, eh? It's all about compromise and choosing your battles. I've become an expert on living the Serenity Prayer (recognize what you can change, change what you can, and have the wisdom to know the difference). Decide what's really important and then try to find humor in the not-so-important things.
Anyway, feel free to vent. We all have things that drive us crazy about our partners.
Ironically, I'm the slob and my husband used to be a neat freak. After 17 years of marriage, I've become a little neater (I have only one coat "unhung up" instead of several) and he's realized that there is a certain freedom in being messy . Our three big golden retrievers really make it impossible to have a really clean house anyway.
Yes, my husband cleans the house! Although, of course, he doesn't do it "right." haha. However, I've classified that in the "not important enough to bring up" category.

[pkq]

I have learned relationships, from friends to parents, are about giving 100%. But don't take my word for it. I am frequently wrong.

[bcipam]

I wonder what kind of advice she has to give homosexual couples, given that she seems to have deep-seated views against homosexuality.
I honestly think Dr. Laura has a view of men and women out of the Jurassic era:

"The women who criticize their husbands in the stories that Schlessinger relates are depressed in their marriages and feel little love from their husbands. Unabashedly asserting that man is a "very simple creature," who needs only "direct communication, respect, appreciation, food, and good loving'" to respond with devotion, compassion and love, this controversial marriage and family therapist claims that every woman can achieve a deeply satisfying marriage if she adheres to certain fundamentals men require. Preparing dinner, caring for the children without complaint, greeting her husband with a kiss and engaging in sexual intimacy instead of "tearing down a husband's necessary sense of strength and importance" can result in the harmonious marriage women crave.

In short, spread your legs and keep his stomach full. I'm sorry, her understanding of both men and women are demeaning to humankind. As women in the twenty first century, we owe many of our freedoms to past generations of women who stood up for themselves and fought against "men's sense of self-importance." If it weren't for those women, I would not have many of the choices I have and because of that, I remind Dr. Laura that well-behaved women rarely made history

I am of the belief before I make an opinion about something I go to the source. I realize there is alot of critique of Dr. Laura, especially from the gay community, but unless a person has actually read her works or listened to her viewpoint in order to understand her properly, it's hard to debate whether that person's viewpoint is right or wrong.

I just have to assume you have read her books and that based on your own reading you agree with the analysis above. I've read her books and I don't get that feeling at all. In fact, she wrote a companion book called "Woman Power" and clearly does not avocate that a woman just sit back and spread her legs (man, in fact, she would argue the contrary!). Clearly women have a very powerful voice, especially in the care and health of a family. But women are different from men. A biological fact and I say viva la difference! Her book "Care and Feeding of Husbands" points out those difference and explains in order to be happy, we must, as women accept those differences. But that doesn't mean roll over and give in. There really are some powerful, concise and astute observations in her books.

And the Gay Community, on a whole, does not condemn Dr. Laura. Yes some do, obviously there is a very vocal minority. I am a Christian, Heterosexual female. I have some viewpoints about homosexuality as well. No, not what you think. That's a whole other thread. But I do believe that sex, regardless of one's bent, should be taken very seriously. I, as does Dr. Laura, feel casual sex is extremely hurtful and damaging. I also feel no one, gays or straights, should have sex without a true comitment, legal is best. There are biological and moral reasons for this. Anyway, enough said. This is the viewpoint of Dr. Laura and many conservative Christians. Now before anyone starts, aren't I entitled to my viewpoint just as you are entitled to yours? I condemn or judge no one, I just say this is my belief. It is not a liberal viewpoint but I do not condemn anyone's right to a liberal viewpoint.

Also I want to add: I realize alot of women who use this forum are very liberal, feminist and gay. OK exact opposite of me. If I were intolerate I clearly would not come to this site, participate in the community and add my own posts. I am interested in listening to everyone's viewpoint and what they have to say. We all have a common thread - the love of cycling. It's so cool we can all agree on that!

I can't really make an informed decision about anything if I don't know both sides of the coin. My beliefs and viewpoints work for me. I am older (55), have lived my life and have had alot of experiences which help shape my views. I started out in life very liberal (I graduated in '68 at the height of SDS - nothing more liberal than that!). My personal experiences and observations have made me more conservative about things. I also know not everything is so black and white, right or wrong. What works for one person may not work for another. But I know what works for me. I am not intolerant, close minded or harsh. I just different from you. Nothing more.

[abuelitodimetu]

I have, in fact, had the appalling experience of listening to her talk show a few times when our truck radio broke and got stuck on her station. So, my opinion is informed. Furthermore, even if I grant Dr. Laura and you the point that there are certain qualities that are intrinsic to male and female nature, respectively, it does not follow that our behavior should/ought to adjust to those differences. No normative claims follow from factual claims. Honestly, I do not which context could make the phrase "tearing down a husband's necessary sense of strength and importance" a little less loathsome.

I can grant you that you're not intolerant; you have not shown intolerance. Nevertheless, Dr. is a judgemental hidebound pseudo-expert who has passed very misguided judgements with regards to both homosexuals and the feminist movement. And yes, I have evidence. So, not only is Dr. Laura annoying and ignorant, she is also spreading lies and hate. So I am sorry, but I am not going say "What works for you might not work for me; we're all cool." The world would be better off without scumbags like her:

So then they make babies without guys and that's part of the feminist mantra – men are not necessary.
Not only that, they are the oppressors. They'll rape and molest your kids and beat you and leave you. The whole mentality is bizarre. And so we have a large percentage of children who will never have a father.

"The well-funded and well-connected homosexual activist movement has become the McCarthyism of the 21st century."

"Of course a society should discriminate. Of course it should. It should discriminate against certain behaviors. And man-on-man and woman-on-woman sexual activity is a deviant sexual orientation -- does not promote any of the values set forth Biblically."

"I am so sick and tired of all the Arab-American groups whining and complaining about some kind of treatment... What culture and what religion were all the murderers of 9/11? They murdered us."

[Eaglewalker]

I have read one of Dr. Laura's books, and I listened to many hours of her radio program. She can be intolerant, and she can be ignorant. I have a problem with her making pronouncements in areas where she is ignorant. This, to me, is the real issue.

One example: a woman called in with an issue, and said that she knew that as a Christian, she was required to forgive, but she was finding this hard to do. Dr. Laura responded that the woman was NOT required to forgive. This was completely wrong -- she should have sent the woman to someone who understands the basic tenants of Christianity.

Another example: a woman called in asking whether she should go on a cruise with her husband. It would entail finding a sitter for her young child because the Coast Guard would not allow more than X number of persons on the ship (based, if I recall, on the number of berths). Dr. Laura said that was ridiculous; it was obvious that a baby could fit in the cabin. The real problem --which she would have realized if she knew anything about sailing and safety -- was not whether the baby would fit in the cabin, but whether it would fit in a lifeboat should there be need.

To give Dr. Laura her due, however, I have also heard one or two homosexual persons calling in with relationship problems. Dr. Laura did not condemn or lecture them, but addressed the problem just as she would have done had it been a heterosexual person.

[Trek420]

bcipam..."I just have to assume you have read her books and that based on your own reading you agree with the analysis above. I've read her books and I don't get that feeling at all."

So many books, so little time, there are much more important things for me to do (like ride...and eat) and better things to read. Like I haven't read any of the Harry Potter books yet!

No, I haven't read her work but when a writer/speaker is generaly agreed to be homophobic, there's enough going on to make me mad during the day that I don't need more.

It's like when someone says "I think this milk is curdled, could you try it?"

You just told me it's bad, I don't need to try it!

"And the Gay Community, on a whole, does not condemn Dr. Laura. Yes some do, obviously there is a very vocal minority."

Oh? And since when do you speak for us?

"I am a Christian, Heterosexual female. I have some viewpoints about homosexuality as well...."

And you and your viewpoints and welcome here!

But you should be aware that speaking as I do for the global LGBT community as a whole (not) we're not asking for, concerned about, care one bit about, give a flying bleep about you think of us.

We're not asking for your approval but would appreciate it very kindly if you would convey to the Christian Right wing as a whole that we would kindly and repectfully appreciate it if you would do what I see (as a lil' Jewish gal from Petaluma, so what do I know?) as the Christian thang to do and get your foot off our backs.

Ya know, judge not lest ye be?..that sorta thing I think that's somewhere in there?

Eating shrimp is an abomination too, I don't see Fred Phelps picketing Red Lobster Surf and Turf Unlimited Shrimp Night ;-)

Want to protect marriage? Cool!! Do something USEFUL for a change. I'd like to see the Christian Right turn their wrath on child molesters, child abuse, elder abuse (honor thy father and mother? isn't that one a the top 10?), spousal abuse, drug and alchohol abuse, cruelty to animals (often the first step towards violence to humans)...those things and more truly endanger marriage and the family.

Do that and we'll be right there with you doing fabulous makeovers of mega churches.

"But I do believe that sex, regardless of one's bent, should be taken very seriously. I, as does Dr. Laura, feel casual sex is extremely hurtful and damaging. I also feel no one, gays or straights, should have sex without a true comitment, legal is best. There are biological and moral reasons for this. Anyway, enough said. This is the viewpoint of Dr. Laura and many conservative Christians. Now before anyone starts, aren't I entitled to my viewpoint just as you are entitled to yours?"

Too late, I'm gonna start.

Yes you are entitled to them. And we are so lucky to have this respectful space to share views.

But I'm confused, someone explain to me like a 2 year old how we got from talking about the gay community as a whole (like there is one, because we're as diverse in oppinions as we are people) to casual sex? Interesting segue (sp?). How do you get here from there?

I don't believe in casual sex either. Some do I'm sure, sigh, no one I meet that's for sure. I mean you don't have to wear a tux, or formal gown to bed with me but....oh I see...

Oooh. You mean sex without commitment?

Oh, now whose fault is that that we can't marry?

Two drunk total strangers married in a drive through chapel in Reno by an Elvis impersonator have more rights than a committed long term gay couple.

If I should be so lucky as to meet the future Mrs Trek420 I would like to have the same rights as my heterosexual peers. Don't care what you call it, don't have to call it marriage but what I'm seeing preached from the pulpit of the Christian Right (which is neither if you ask me) is that my right to provide health care, to visit a spouse in a hospital, for her to inherit property from me...all this threatens your marriage somehow.

I don't think we threaten your relationships at all, rather it strengthens and stresses the importance of commitment.

[abuelitodimetu]

Eating shrimp is an abomination too, I don't see Fred Phelps picketing Red Lobster Surf and Turf Unlimited Shrimp Night ;-)


"But I do believe that sex, regardless of one's bent, should be taken very seriously. I, as does Dr. Laura, feel casual sex is extremely hurtful and damaging. I also feel no one, gays or straights, should have sex without a true comitment, legal is best. There are biological and moral reasons for this. Anyway, enough said. This is the viewpoint of Dr. Laura and many conservative Christians. Now before anyone starts, aren't I entitled to my viewpoint just as you are entitled to yours?"


But I'm confused, someone explain to me like a 2 year old how we got from talking about the gay community as a whole (like there is one, because we're as diverse in oppinions as we are people) to casual sex? Interesting segue (sp?). How do you get here from there?

I don't believe in casual sex either. Some do I'm sure, sigh, no one I meet that's for sure. I mean you don't have to wear a tux, or formal gown to bed with me but....oh I see...

Oooh. You mean sex without commitment?

Oh, now whose fault is that that we can't marry?

Trek, I'm glad you picked up on those points and replied to them. This morning while I was swimming in a mad rage, I realized what made me the angriest about this thing is the perpetuation of the stereotype of gay = promiscuous, which is a complete non-sequitur.

Also, to break the stereotype, one need not be gay + liberal + feminist + atheist to share a dislike for misogynous, homophobic views. I just believe that everyone is entitled to get a shot at the good life.

And just for laughs (because, although certain points have to be made, what I love about TE is the fun) the famous open letter to Dr. Laura:

Dear Dr Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you however, regarding some of the specific laws and how best to follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:&. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15: 19 - 24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev 25: 44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

f) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

g) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev19:27. How should they die?

h) I know from Lev. 11:6 - 8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves.

i) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of threads (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24: 10 - 16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? Lev 20:14.

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.....

[Trek420]

Thank you Abu (can we call you abu for short?). I wasn't quite sure what to say but find a good workout clears my head. So after I got back from the dojo I've always found I'd rather use wit, humor and hopefully some logic to make a point, I'm rarely angry, or not for long.

And so because I love the way we use humor here and just in time for Valentines day the top 15 Biblical Ways to get a Wife:

1. Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head,
trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she's yours.
- (Deuteronomy 21:11-13)

2. Find a prostitute and marry her.
- Hosea (Hosea 1:1-3)

3. Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock.
- Moses (Exodus 2:16-21)

4. Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal.
- Boaz (Ruth 4:5-10)

5. Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one
and carry her off to be your wife.
- Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25)

6. Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost
you a rib.
- Adam (Genesis 2:19-24)

7. Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman's hand in marriage.
Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven
years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That's right.
Fourteen years of toil for a woman.
- Jacob (Genesis 29:15-30)

8. Cut off 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law's enemies and get
his daughter for a wife.
- David (I Samuel 18:27)

9. Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you'll definitely
find someone. (It's all relative of course.)
- Cain (Genesis 4:16-17)

10. Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest.
- Xerxes or Ahasuerus (Esther 2:3-4)

11. When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents,
I have seen a ...woman; now get her for me. If your parents question
your decision, simply say, Get her for me. She's the one for me.
- Samson (Judges 14:1-3)

12. Kill any husband and take HIS wife. (Prepare to lose your son though).
- David (2 Samuel 11)

13. Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. (It's not just a good idea,
it's the law).
- Onan and Boaz (Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in Ruth)

14. Don't be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity.
- Solomon (1 Kings 11:1-3)

15. A wife?...NOT!!!
- Paul (1 Corinthians 7:32-35)

[Eaglewalker]

The following is an email exchange. A friend sent me the original. Being a helpful person, I tried to answer all the queries raised. My responses are in italics.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

No -- just invite them to the barbeque.

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

Well, that depends. Do you plan to sell her on Hollywood Blvd, or Rodeo Drive?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

The Biblical reference is to her bed, her chair, and having sex with her. Just stay away from all chairs and beds except your own. You're only allowed to have sex with your wife, so if you don't know when she's menstruating, you aren't living in the same town with her and won't have much chance of sex, anyway.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

Your neighbor is wrong. Under NAFTA, you can purchase both Mexicans and Canadians. (They can also purchase us.) When you schedule the depreciation of your slaves, don't forget to account for Jubilee Year, when you have to free them.

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. (Exodus 35:2) clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

Let your neighborhood priests and elders handle it. They may call you in to help with the stoning, so always keep a good pile of small rocks on hand.

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

They are equivalent. Anyone who would indulge in one abomination would indulge in the other. Just as anyone who smokes marijuana will eventually progress to heroin and the downfall of Western civilization.

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Sit in the back of the room, just to be safe.

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

This isn't a killing offense, but it might involve another barbeque. Be sure they invite you.

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

Just take a ritual bath after the game, and remember, no sex for a week.

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

Well, blaspheming is a sin against the community and might bring the Lord's wrath down on the whole town. I'm afraid everyone is going to have to dig into their rock piles for this one. (Are you sure you want to admit to being related?)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

You're welcome.

[Trek420]

I knew it! Dr. Laura is lurking here.

thank you, thank you Dr. Laura, such sensible advice. And when you have that BBQ, invite me and I'll bring the quiche, yogurt and Perrier (that's all we eat BTW.)

::surfs off to buy all your books:: and now, back to cycling?

[abuelitodimetu]

[QUOTE=Trek420]Thank you Abu (can we call you abu for short?). [QUOTE=Trek420]

Absolutely!

And now I have to get to work: First, replenish rock pile; Second, wait for BF to come home and have nice evening of stoning (the neighborhood is full of infidels!).

[Trek420]

abuelitodimetu's agenda:

"And now I have to get to work: First, replenish rock pile; Second, wait for BF to come home and have nice evening of stoning (the neighborhood is full of infidels!)."

"So I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned"

~Bob Dylan