growing up.. rambling

[Catrin]

So what.... if someone doesn't want to conform to another person's idea of what it means to be "grown up"... You don't have to like everyone - let them be little boys/girls forever if they want to be.

This is an interesting discussion. What it means to be "grown up" appears to be changing - and that happens. What I find more interesting is this idea that to be "grown up" = is to be boring and frozen at a certain level of development. I do not think that has ever been the case but it appears to be a common perception of what it means to be "adult".

Given that is the current perception of what it means to be "grown up" it is understandable that people rail against it. To be an adult, at least to me, is to take responsibility for both physical and spiritual development - they can't be separated and I think we get in trouble when we do separate them. Certainly there must be a balance in all things, and as a single 51 year old woman, what might be a responsible choice for me might be an irresponsible choice for a 25 year old mother with partner and children - it all has to be in context and it seems that in many cases that is what is lacking - that context.

I don't understand why/how certain activities, such as cycling/rock climbing/whatever appear to be considered for a certain age group only. Obviously we (TE members) do not buy into that

It is all about choices and what matters most to us. For some of is it is most important to be in a certain income bracket - and for some of us it is not - but our health and physical condition play such a key role in our interior development, emotional/mental health and how we interact with the world around us that it is just too important to neglect. Of course, this is coming from someone who has made that mistake for much of her adult life

[jelee1311]

I have a husband and a child,I just turned 40 and I plan on going skydiving this year.I cant imagine it any more dangerous than having my daughter 9 years ago and very nearly dying.Or the horrible bike wreck my husband survived a few years ago that left his teammate in the hospital for 6months.I still worry less about him than before he started riding, was 30lbs overweight and smoked 2 packs of cigs a day. I don't plan on being boring or acting my age anytime soon especially since I could just as easily die by mundane things. A masters athlete I once met was 76 and ran hurdles (at a time when many worry about breaking a hip)she started racing at 70.Quite the inspiration

[Mr. Bloom]

I just saw 127 Hours with my son yesterday (Pfew-Intense!) about Aron Ralston, who cut off his arm after being trapped for days in a climbing accident.

By many standards discussed in this thread, society may not have considered him "grown up"; he left an engineering job with Intel to work in a hiking shop and do more rock climbing, he seemed "to live to climb", etc.

But, while I'm certain that the movie takes license in its rendition of the event, the true test of maturity is that he SURVIVED a hopeless ordeal through SKILL, DETERMINATION, PERSEVERANCE, and perhaps a little bit of luck.

In addition, according to quotes of this article, he turned "lemons into lemonade" by continuing a prolific passion for climbing with continued success.

OK, he married and had a kid later in life and "played" a lot for 35 years, but in my opinion, while he was not socially perfect, he sure proved he was grown up in a narrow canyon near Moab.

[OakLeaf]

I posted a couple of thoughts in Zombeav's doomed thread but they're relevant here, too, I think.

It seems that when people reach a certain age, we tend to convince ourselves (or succumb to welcome brainwashing by commercial interests) that we're immortal. Not only don't we plan for our deaths (emotionally, I mean, obviously many people plan financially, with the assistance of a different group of commercial interests ), but we're willing to sacrifice huge chunks of the quality of our lives for an uncertain promise of more quantity. I read recently that the increases in life expectancy that have occurred in western countries over recent decades, have been accompanied by an actual DECREASE in the number of years of healthy life a person can expect.

Maybe, pretending that you're not going to die, and pretending it's impossible that you might die soon, is what's considered "grown up" in western societies.

Maybe, cognizance of one's own mortality is a luxury of childless persons, and that's why forgetting it is considered grown up. The idea that your children might die with you in a mass catastrophe - or that you might orphan your children - is unthinkable. (But I don't think that's really the case, since people in past generations dealt every day with their own mortality as well as their children's.) So doing something "risky" that makes your mortality evident to other people is considered immature.

I think about this a lot, because people "our age" tend to accuse young people of acting as though they think they're immortal, when I believe it's exactly the opposite. Young people think about death frequently and accept that it could come to them at any minute. It's when we've reached 40 or 50 and it hasn't happened to us yet, that we start believing it's never going to.

[Crankin]

I agree, Oakleaf. I cannot stand the thought of death. It scares the crap out of me. You're here and then you're gone. No one knows what it feels like.
While I have had minimum trouble dealing with the death of others, I absolutely do not want to think about my own mortality. It's easier for me to think about one of my kids dying than to think of myself dying; something I've been forced to do having a kid in the military.
I know some will say it's because of my lack of a concept of "the after-life," and it is true my religion emphasizes life here on earth. I don't feel like I am waiting to be reunited with others who have died. It's sort of a feeling like we are doomed to begin with.

[malkin]

It probably says something about my level of maturity or up-grownedness that I went snooping around for the article and ended up playing this game:

http://www.aftenposten.no/reise/test...cle3906784.ece

[lph]

heheh I'll post it for you when I find it, it was in A-magasinet.

[Deborajen]

If the guy being written about has a tattoo that says "I don't want to grow up," I'd assume he doesn't feel grown up - and he's o.k. with it - ? My dad has always joked that he doesn't want to grow up. He flies sailplanes and refers to them as his "toys." Dad helped raise four kids, he was serious about his responsibilities but he also liked to "play" - flying. So what? Sounds to me like the author might be jealous or have no sense of humor - he needs to lighten up!

As far as trying to stir things up by saying people are getting more concerned about their bodies than their souls, well, like a lot of people, the author just doesn't get it. Staying active and fit are good things, and physical activity isn't necessarily all about the body. Physical activity produces endorphins - we at TE know what good those do, don't we? For me, if I'm going to live to be in my 80's or 90's like my grandparents, turning 40, which people like to refer to as "over the hill," is only around the midpoint and I don't intend to spend over half my life being inactive and letting the body go. Now if the author had referenced people getting divorced and walking out on spouse and kids so they can go off and do extreme sports that get them into trouble to where they have to be rescued, putting rescuers in danger and costing taxpayers a lot of money and raising everyone's insurance premiums, now that would be selfish, irresponsible, and definitely "not grown up" - in a bad way. But, like I said before, I think the author just doesn't get it. A lot of people don't. We can't make them, either. Their loss. It sells newspapers.--

[limewave]

I'm going to throw in my 2-cents:

It goes back to when we were kids and told that people "put-down" others to "elevate" themselves. I believe there's an element of jealousy.

Wouldn't we all just love to feel young and free and not have the weight of responsibility holding us down?

I have a lot of friends in their 30's and 40's that are choosing to either stay single or not have kids because they have active lifestyles that they love. They don't want to give that up. Does that mean they aren't grown-up? No, I think it just means they know themselves, know what they want, and are making those decisions for themselves. It's great!

To me, not being "grown-up" would mean you don't take responsibility for yourself. It has nothing to do with what positive activities you fill your life with.

[badger]

I didn't read all 4 pages, so hopefully I'm not repeating what someone's said or completely off the mark.

It really is an interesting discussing as to what exactly being grown up means.

I'm turning 40 later in March this year. While I was in my late teens and all of my twenties, it never crossed my mind that I wouldn't be married and childless. But as I entered my thirties, I really started questioning whether I really wanted kids. With them comes all sorts of responsibility I may not want to shoulder.

Now that I'm hitting 40 and soon it won't be a choice anymore to not have kids. I'm hoping I won't regret it, but it's not like I have a burning desire to be a mother.

I went snowboarding over the weekend and my mother commented that all I seem to do is play, but is that so wrong? Like the guy in the article, I'm gainfully employed, own my own place, pay my taxes and haven't been in trouble with the law or anything. I just happen to not taken the road of becoming a wife and mother.

I think we're becoming very self-focused these days, "what can we do to make our lives better?" instead of in the past "what can I do to make my family's life better?" And for those who choose not to have a family, is it so wrong to do things that make our lives better?

[Biciclista]

It probably says something about my level of maturity or up-grownedness that I went snooping around for the article and ended up playing this game:

http://www.aftenposten.no/reise/test...cle3906784.ece

Malkin, what's that game about? (Can't read it)

It's always easy for one generation to look down on the next ones. As a mother, i have fits about my sons not taking seriously the same things I did.

[Crankin]

Well, mostly my kids have similar views as mine, as far as what's important, although they are both leading different lifestyles as far as compared to what I was doing at their age. My oldest son's wife is just about 31... when I was that age I had one kid, was pg with the second, had my master's degree, and was on my second house. She is just finding herself career wise, and seems much younger than I was, although she is not immature. It's just different.

[indysteel]

I didn't read all 4 pages, so hopefully I'm not repeating what someone's said or completely off the mark.

It really is an interesting discussing as to what exactly being grown up means.

I'm turning 40 later in March this year. While I was in my late teens and all of my twenties, it never crossed my mind that I wouldn't be married and childless. But as I entered my thirties, I really started questioning whether I really wanted kids. With them comes all sorts of responsibility I may not want to shoulder.

Now that I'm hitting 40 and soon it won't be a choice anymore to not have kids. I'm hoping I won't regret it, but it's not like I have a burning desire to be a mother.

I went snowboarding over the weekend and my mother commented that all I seem to do is play, but is that so wrong? Like the guy in the article, I'm gainfully employed, own my own place, pay my taxes and haven't been in trouble with the law or anything. I just happen to not taken the road of becoming a wife and mother.

I think we're becoming very self-focused these days, "what can we do to make our lives better?" instead of in the past "what can I do to make my family's life better?" And for those who choose not to have a family, is it so wrong to do things that make our lives better?

I've struggled with some of these same questions. I didn't get married until I was approaching 41. Even before that, I was lukewarm at best about having children. I just didn't feel a huge desire for it. Growing up in a less than loving home may have something to do with that, but I don't think it fully explains my ambivalence. I recognized a long time ago that I can only handle so much stress before I go off the deep end. While I've learned how better to cope with stress, I think my breaking point is still far lower than I generally think is necessary to be an effective parent. So, while I feel like it's out of selfishness than I've decided against kids, it's a selfless act, too.

In any event, my DH and I have decided to remain childless (at least that's the plan). I feel confident in my decision, as does he, and there's a lot that we look forward to doing that likely will be a lot easier to do without children. I recognize that no big decision is wholly without regret, but I'm pretty comfortable with the occasional moments of doubt or wistfulness. My friends' toddlers usually jolt me out of it pretty quickly.

That said, I do think it's important to contribute to my community and to address needs other than my own. To that end, I do spend a fair amount of time doing volunteer work. I also strive to be a socially conscious and responsible person, too. When I can, I try to help out my friends with kids and to be supportive of the challenges they face. I kind of like a good "aunt." And I do what I can for children of the four-legged variety. In the end, I feel like I'm doing my part in my community, with or without some of the traditional vestiges of grown up life.

[Becky]

Well said, Indy.

I think that kids are adorable (usually), but there's a limit to my stress management abilities and patience, combined with the requirements of my own healthcare.

I just wish that people would stop asking me about it. *sighs*

[GLC1968]

See, and I grew up in a very, very happy home, had both parents to love and look after me, I played with babydolls as a child, and yet as I approached adulthood, I just didn't want kids.

In my case, it's not a fear of being a good parent (I think I'd make an exellent one, actually - and I handle stress remarkably well), it's just that I never felt any desire to raise my own children. And I know it's practically a sin to admit it, but I don't really like kids. Hell, I didn't like kids even when I WAS a kid! I do feel like I missed out on something having never experienced pregnancy, but I'm not a fool to think I could be pregnant and then not raise children. I'm pretty sure one follows the other!

Then I married a man who also didn't want kids, and my fate was kind of sealed.

Of course, now as I approach my 43rd birthday, I find myself thinking 'what if' quite a bit more than I had expected...