Hogging the road

[PamNY]

Here is part of the op in case we lean to revisionism:
She completely hogged the road and would not pull over, even though all she needed to do was move a few feet and slow down at one of the turn outs (no need to even stop the bike) and let me by. ... That's not sharing the road. Wish she would find another training place.....

Oz, what you quoted proves my point.

Maybe some of you haven't seen that kind of road? This is a road too narrow for vehicles to pass, so there is an occasional wide area in the road specifically designed to solve that problem. I saw them a lot in rural areas when I was growing up.

The presence of turnouts makes all the difference in the cyclist's safety. That the OP specifically said "at the turnout" proves she is thinking of the cyclist's safety.

Discussion of the dangers of riding near the shoulder clearly meets some sort of emotional need, but it has nothing to do with the actual road conditions in the situation the OP described.

[jessmarimba]

At this point, I think we're just all reiterating the same argument to ourselves. There is no way the OP could stand up to this, even if her points were valid and the way they came across was just misinterpreted (as can happen with text).

So, here's some virtual coffee and homemade poundcake to everyone, and I hope all of you have a good day today!

[Veronica]

So, here's some virtual coffee and homemade poundcake to everyone, and I hope all of you have a good day today!

What kind of pound cake? I only eat certain kinds so I won't have a good day unless it's the right kind.

Veronica

[Grog]

I spend a lot of time thinking about road safety both as a cyclist and as a driver (and as a pedestrian walking in construction zones every day and as an office dweller working in a building with laboratories handling hazardous materials and as someone who lives in a place where we're expecting a very big earthquake, probably sometime in my lifetime, etc.). I was taught to always keep an eye on my "emergency exits", it can save my life in a building, in a plane, on the road.

I couldn't help but think about this thread still on my commute this morning, forgive me for sharing some more thoughts. While I do want to engage with Featuretile's (the OP's) case specifically, and I feel for her considering that this thread has taken about the same turn as if she was asking about how best to listen to her iPod while riding, I think it's more important to think about the principles one should think of adopting as a cyclist and as a driver in similar situations (narrow, steep road, cyclist descending, followed by a car, road with pullouts).

Let's say I'm going down a hill, fast (even if I'm riding the brakes I will be going somewhat fast). What maneuver do I have to do to pull over on the side of the road, considering the dangers I have listed in my previous message?

- I can slow down in my existing position in the traveling lane to a speed where I feel comfortable moving over to the shoulder. If I have a car on my tail, it's dangerous to slow down while in the traveling lane: there is no way for me to know how much attention the driver is paying to the road, to my speed, or... to the stereo or to the toddler screaming in the backseat. I don't consider that as an option.

- I can move to the shoulder and then slow down. This is also dangerous because I become more exposed to risks ahead of me as I get closer to the shoulder, but still don't have the greater room for compensation that slower speed would give me. I definitely would not see that as a safe option either.

In that quarter-of-a-second when I have to make a decision about this (remember, this is happening pretty fast and I have other things to think about, such as my line descending the hill), I would probably decide to carry on with my initial strategy (take the lane) down to the bottom of the road. Of course, if there is a car or another obstacle coming ahead of me, I will adjust my course accordingly.

Because I'm that kind of person, and I felt there was a need, I would probably wait for the driver to catch up with me at the bottom - or if they passed me in a manner that did not feel safe, I would do my best to catch up with them at the next stop sign, and I would engage in dialogue with them as much as I can. If they were so close that I suspect they could actually see it when I was riding the brakes on my bike, the dialogue might make me a bit nervous though, and my words would not come across as peacefully as I would want to. I would explain the motive for my riding strategy to the driver, and see what happens from there, with the objective of better cohabitation and peace of mind for all involved. At that time, if it was a private road and the driver, as a resident, had an issue with me riding there, it would be a good opportunity to share it with me. However, I would not be very phased by the driver's remarks on *my* safety, even if the driver had a car on their rooftop and was wearing cycling gear. That's my assessment to make, and I think a lot of cyclists have a very poor understanding of their own safety anyway. Their problem, not mine (except when the other cyclist is my husband and is riding in the door zone - arrrg!).

As a driver, if this happened to me, I would perhaps feel a bit annoyed the first time this happened, like you Featuretile. Then I would spend a lot of time thinking about it - as you have maybe. And maybe the next time I would pull over to the side of the road myself (a much less risky maneuver for a car, especially if there is nobody behind me), stop, and count to ten. By the time I get on the road again, the "annoyance" would be long gone...

[OakLeaf]

Exactly, Grog, and thanks for that.

I think most all of us knew instinctively that the turnout is NOT safe for cyclists, but couldn't articulate why. (I'd add that the turnouts I've seen usually aren't paved ... and there's extra debris from the turnouts in the adjacent shoulder ... making them even more dangerous.)

It's entirely appropriate to expect someone to pull over WHEN IT'S SAFE, whether that someone is piloting a bicycle, a state mowing rig, a school bus, or just a car that they probably shouldn't be driving at all but think that they're okay if they drive 10 mph below the limit. Or if they're driving a car in a safe, normal fashion, and the person behind them is on a motorcycle that can take the corners 15-20 mph faster.

Keyword: "when it's safe." Grog did a terrific job of explaining why it isn't.

Whenever I get annoyed with someone on the road (which is rarely a cyclist - and when it is, it's usually someone riding against traffic or doing something else that really frightens me, rather than just inconveniencing me) - I take a breath. Think about what it's really going to cost me to wait another ten seconds versus what it costs me in stress hormones, etc., to give in to the feeling. Then just deal with it in as non-confrontational a manner as I can.

[jobob]

Thank you so much Grog. (Oakleaf too! And everyone else who has chimed in.)

In particular, Grog's most recent post and her earlier posts are absolutely spot-on (imho, of course).

[jessmarimba]

I just wanted to throw this in here, too...

We are assuming (and likely correctly, but still assuming) that the OP is talking about a cyclist on a road bike. I've been known to do road hill repeats on my mtb, simply b/c that's what I ride on a regular basis. My mountain bike (and please don't judge me for the quality of my bike) would only go 25 mph on a descent if I threw it off a cliff. In that case, I would NOT be "sharing the road" by taking the lane and riding my brakes down in front of a car. Which is why, if it was me on my bike, it would be a better idea to pull off into a turnout. Besides which, I've already demonstrated my aptitude in flying over the bars and I'd rather do that behind a vehicle.

Not to argue with any of the valid points that have been made here. Simply to illustrate that situations may vary. I think the point everyone has made is that we all have to judge our situation and do whatever we feel is safest.