Hogging the road

[Biciclista]

we were really hoping you'd understand just how seriously difficult it is for cyclists to "pull over to the side" on a steep and winding hill. It's a life or death thing... or at least serious injury. All of us know someone who DID get too far over into the shoulder and crashed and burned..

[jobob]

No, the safest thing for *her* to do was to not deviate from her line and continue to descend the hill.....

Yep.

we were really hoping you'd understand just how seriously difficult it is for cyclists to "pull over to the side" on a steep and winding hill. It's a life or death thing... or at least serious injury. All of us know someone who DID get too far over into the shoulder and crashed and burned..

Yep.

I used to tend to be too far over to the right on downhills.

You would have liked me back then, featuretile.

I'd worry sooooo much about inconveniencing drivers, even though more often than not I was faster than them on downhills, or, if not faster, then going at a comparable speed. But I'd still move way too far over to the right, even though (in case you haven't noticed) that's where most of the debris in the road collects, and the ruts in the road seem to be the worst.

Yep, you would have really liked me back then.

Then, over a year & a half ago, some folks (including a few TE-ers and my DH) helped scrape me off the pavement when I hit a rut near the edge of the road on a steep downhill.

Little 'ol courteous me, trying not to get in anyone's way. That misplaced courtesy nearly got me killed (and, I'm told, messed up traffic for a good long time while they brought in the emergency crews and the helicopter to transport me to the trauma center. Whoopsie. My bad.).

You would not like me now.

Or, at least, you would not like to follow me now.

Nowadays I will not put my life at risk for the sake of saving someone a few moments. If the situation warrants it, I'll take the lane. A few moments of someone's day is not worth jeopardizing my entire life anymore.

Funny what a few days in a trauma center, four weeks with double vision and over three months in a back brace will do to one's definition of "inconvenience".

[crazycanuck]

There's no freakin way i'm getting close to the sides of some of our roads!! There's NOTHING on the side..except for honkey nuts & pea gravel.

I'll hog the road thanks.

[OakLeaf]

I couldn't say it any better than jobob did.

I'd add that I don't know what difference it makes to an automobile driver whether she's doing hill repeats or just passing through. Unless the motorist is ALSO doing hill repeats, they'll encounter her exactly once.

As far as it being a private road ... that's a tough one. Our group does a couple of loops through gated communities. Although I don't join them for it, they do sprint intervals there one day a week. I would hate to see the relationship get confrontational. Because the low traffic density means they tend to be the safest place to ride.

[radacrider]

Seems like this kinda went from the OP more or less venting about an experience to 4 wheels bad, 2 wheels good.

I don't believe the OP was saying the cyclist should ride way to the right and I do not believe the OP was saying the cyclist should not be taking the lane.

I see the whole issue as not so much about legalities, but more about what does it mean to share the road.

Does sharing the road mean "I have a legal right to be here so the heck with anyone else around me"?

Here's what I think it means to me and is how I share the road. (Note: Your mileage and experience may vary, and that's cool, cuz you aren't me, you are you)

I am a car and bike person. I have sat in traffic in both. Sharing the road means not just with different road users, but also same (car and car, bike and bike). Sharing is not just about bikes and cars. This morning I rode in, it was dark, along a neighborhood bikeway. Two other cyclists were just ahead. I could see a pedestrian waiting to cross. The two cyclists went by, I slowed and waved the pedestrian to cross and she called out, "thank you."

Legally I could just zoom by, I chose to let the pedestrian cross - sharing the space we were in.

I've waved cars on when on my bike. I've waved bikes on when in my car (even though legally I was not required to do so). I've been waved on by peds and bikes, in my car. I stop where safe to let others cross the road (for both peds and bikes).

I really think it is about sharing, being aware of who is around you, making choices. I won't always like others' choices, but I do not have control over them. Again, seems to have less to do with who is in what vehicle and who has what legal right, but rather about not liking another's choice when it seems to negatively impact us.

I understand the OP's frustration. I've had that with other road users. My frustration was not about whether the other had legal rights to be on the road, more about "I wish they could see they are doing under the speed limit and building a line of cars behind them, can't they pull over for a bit to let some of us by?"

Anyway, just saying ...

[jobob]

Seems like this kinda went from the OP more or less venting about an experience to 4 wheels bad, 2 wheels good.

Well. That sure simplifies it.

Here's another very simple way to look at it:

What matters more to you ...
a few moments out of your apparently busy busy busy day, or,
someone else's lifetime?

Hmm?

[jobob]

This thread saddens me so.

Next time I'm going down a hill I'll probably start to wonder yet again if the person behind me is getting his or her panties in a knot on account of my existence (yes, I still do that to this day, old habits die hard!), but now, even worse, I'll wonder if its a TE'er.

And I'll probably be even more likely to try to slow down and try to move over to the right to accommodate that person -- which, after all, is what the OP says I should be doing -- because, deep down, I still don't ever want to be in anyone's way. Even after all the crap I went through.

It wouldn't be safe for me to do that, and it would be downright stupid for me to do that, but, there you go.

[Crankin]

Well, this is not a comment on the particular situation (riding in the lane or to the side), but rather a thought that I think the OP was surprised that she had such a reaction to another cyclist and feels guilty. I identify with that, because it's happened to me. Mostly when the person (or group) is doing something blatantly impolite or illegal, but still, I feel badly that I am annoyed at a cyclist.
I am a timid descender, so I can see why some people would think it was safer to move right. I am pretty comfortable taking the lane anywhere, so if it's a curvy descent, you can be sure I will be out in the lane, because at least the drivers can see me. Since I probably will not be going over 30, the cars might get pissed, but I don't care. Most of the hills around here are not that long, so it's just a few seconds. This happens routinely on Strawberry Hill Rd., a major cut through street for both cars and cyclists, including big group rides. My street is off of this street and I have had to wait both going up and down the hill, if I am driving behind a cyclist. It's curvy and narrow and I won't put anyone's safety in danger.
The one time I did get really annoyed (yes, I wanted to *move*) was when a group stopped at the top of the hill at the stop sign and didn't signal, obviously didn't have good communication about which way the ride was going, and none of the riders were willing to put a foot down. They stood there, doing a track stand, looking like "where should I go?" I just waited, since it's a very busy and somewhat obstructed view intersection. The riders all started going in different directions! Good thing I waited longer than usual, because it took awhile for the ones who went the wrong way to turn around and continue on their way.
I just don't drive that way anymore on Saturday or Sunday mornings.

[Veronica]

Jo, I'll bring my train whistle next time we ride and blow it at you.

It so goes against my nature, but I'm really working this year on being less judgemental of others. It's so easy to think, "Well, that's not what I would do." That's what really struck me in the original post.

She wondered why the bicyclist might have been doing what she was doing because the OP would not have ridden that road. Lots of rational reasons were given for the bicyclist's behavior. But none seemed acceptable to the OP.

Just because you would not do it, does not make it unsafe for someone else.

Jo, keep takin' the freakin' lane. I like your company.

Veronica