my congresswoman was shot today

[tzvia]

I'd honestly be interested in seeing facts or documentation to support this statement.

A very highly regarded professor of criminology, Gary Kleck, Ph.D. of Florida State University, did a study that shows that guns are 'used' (meaning anything from shouting "I have a gun, leave my house" to actual use) to prevent crimes more often (almost twice as often) than commit them. The information is out there, Google is your friend. When I was forced to grab a gun in my own home (thankfully they did not want to challenge my rifle) I was strongly anti gun- the rifle, a .22, was my father's and probably would not work if I tried, and was empty. It took the L.A. Riots to make me re-think my reliance on police.

As for the 'you are more likely to be a victim if you have a gun', that is skewed anti-gun nonsense. First, the data is taken from emergency room info- which leaves out the vast majority of defensive gun use like mine, no shots fired AND not reported to authorities. Also, it is skewed as violent people own violent things (not the other way around) and yes gang bangers, drug dealers and other violent type criminals do shoot each other. Sprouting that as proof that owning a gun is dangerous is quite a stretch.

Now, firearms accidents are another 'foaming at the mouth' anti-gun talking point that should be addressed while the topic is open. From the CDC (http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html if you wish to look), the last year they have data, 2007, was 613, out of a population of 301,579,895, a rate of .20. This rate per 100,000 has been falling since the 1930s despite an increase of firearms ownership, population AND an increase in 'shall issue' concealed carry- citizens carrying firearms concealed in public. By comparison, 820 people died in bicycle-involved accidents, a rate of .27 so owning a firearm is is safer than cycling.

Sorry for the long post from my soapbox again ...

[Aggie_Ama]

The more that comes out on this seems to be a failure of massive proportions on our mental health system. The shooter was acting out long before this, I view it as a cry for help.

I still am not a fan of handguns but my husband owns a shotgun and rifle for occasional hunting trips. My mom taught me to view any gun as loaded and learn were the safety is. I am completely okay with him having them. I am also completely fine with there being rifles and shotguns in the house with my nieces. The seven year old took gun safety this year and the five year old told me guns are not toys when she saw one on TV. That is the slippery slope with guns, there are responsible owners everywhere. Some people have guns for evil and are able to get them readily.

[Trek420]

there are responsible owners everywhere. Some people have guns for evil and are able to get them readily.

Statistics don't matter when the godson of a friend is shot.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...o-protect-him/

It's a complicated issue. There are responsible, trained owners who should be allowed to have guns. There are people who should never be allowed to have a gun whether because of criminal record, mental health, lack of training or lack of ethics/judgement .... and yet anyone can walk into any Wallmart and get one with extended ammo clip.

We ask more to get a drivers license than to get a gun. Both can take a life.

I have to side with and speak for the people who can't speak; victims of guns. The NRA has a lobby and that's fine. But C.J. can't speak.

[lunacycles]

The information is out there, Google is your friend.

Yes. And if you keep googling you will find many studies and articles that show exactly the opposite. One article on the web doesn't say much. I asked the question because while I was attending graduate school we were given loads of evidence to the contrary: guns cause crime much more often than prevent it. The U.S. has the highest rate of violent crime of any country in the first world, that lack of gun control means "x" times as much people die violent deaths in our country. Our lax gun laws mean our guns can and do easily go south of the border to support drug cartels and the heinous crimes they commit... etc etc. Most of this info came to me a decade ago, but as nothing has changed wrt gun control (if anything, access to guns has become even easier), I doubt those stats have changed much. But I honestly don't know and am not interested in proving my point enough to do so in this instance.

Anyway, I agree responsible gun owners exist, but I think too many guns get into the hands of the wrong people as a result of poor regulation and/or enforcement, and it would behoove us all to do whatever we can to change that.

[KnottedYet]

It would behoove us all to vote in ways that assure full mental health care for the most needy.

People with extreme mental illness cannot hold jobs. They can't get insurance through their work. They can't afford to buy it on the open market. And they certainly can't afford to pay cash for their mental health care.

Expecting them to self-diagnose, self-direct, and self-pay is cruel and deeply ignorant.

There is hefty mental illness in every generation of my family, but luckily the family knows and catches the cousins who begin to show signs of schizophrenia or bipolar. One of my cousins is institutionalized right now. If not for the family, where would he be? Where would WE be?

What about those whose parents are also untreated mentally ill, and so no-one catches anyone at all? (Loughner's family sounds like an example)

If Loughner hadn't had a gun handy, he would have used something else. A bottle of Chlorox. A sword. A crossbow. A bomb.

I don't see the weapon as the issue. I see the environment as the issue. Loughner showed clear signs of losing his grip, but nothing existed to catch him before he fell into madness and, surrounded by images of violence, saw violence as the way to go.

Sure, cutting publicly funded mental health care and closing the public institutions in the 1980's saved a ton of money.

But we still have to pay the price.

And it's a lot higher now.

[Aggie_Ama]

Statistics don't matter when the godson of a friend is shot.

A dear friend of mine, a man I loved and adored was killed in a murder-suicide by his former partner. The guy that killed him had gotten his concealed license one month earlier, used a gun he had for his job in security and was unable to cope with their relationship falling apart. He followed him on a beautiful May morning and shot him point blank range in the chest in broad daylight while the 3 year old he was arriving to babysit watched. Even nearly 15 years later I find myself gasping for breath if I see a handgun, even cops I can't fully trust not to snap. I know both sides way more than I want to. I struggle immensely with believing my family should be allowed to own guns because it also means others can get them just as easily. And I wish nearly every day Keith could speak for himself, he had an informed and well thought opinion on everything if only he weren't silenced. Would he want guns restricted? Would he think anyone is capable of anything? Would he have an even better idea?

Thank you Knot for as usual saying what I want to say in such a clear manner.

[Trek420]

Thank you Knot for as usual saying what I want to say in such a clear manner.

Yes, Knott is very wise.