my congresswoman was shot today

[channlluv]

...
Again, not to politicize the board but I think what is not said enough in the health care debate is that mental health care is health care. Access to it is life saving. Sometimes we could save is the individual effected and in other cases many others.

If that's the case I hope he gets some care and finds some peace. He has changed the lives of many who died and even those who survived will never be the same.

Trek, this is the most ironic thing I've read or heard in all the coverage of this horrific event. Thank you for posting this.

Roxy

[Trek420]

Trek, this is the most ironic thing I've read or heard in all the coverage of this horrific event. Thank you for posting this.

Roxy

Well? In the health care debate when some (disclosure: that some include me) observe that people without health care tend to find, get diagnosed, get treatment later on and be in worse condition when care starts which costs us more .... we are not just talking about the cancer found at stage 4 instead of early when a lumpectomy will do.

We are and should be talking about mental health and what we pay for lack of access. And what we all paid yesterday, some with their lives.

It was over 25 years ago that I had a bout of deep depression. Somehow I managed to get the care I needed. I don't recall exactly how because at the time I did not have insurance or my insurance didn't include mental health. But somehow I did. I am thankful every single day that I got the care I needed.

Could this young man have been turned around?

[azfiddle]

My initial cycling destination today was the site of Congresswoman Giffords' office, where candles, flowers and messages have been brought, and people have come to reflect and share their feelings.

When I got home from my ride, my brother-in-law called to tell me my photo was on the cover of the NY Times (www.nytimes.com). You can tell it's me- I'm in a bike helmet....

I stayed for about 1/2 hour, just looking, thinking, and talking before going out for a little more private reflection time at Saguaro National Park.

[Trek420]

When will I ever learn? Upon reading that the Westboro Baptist Church, that paragon of Christian values, will be picketing the funerals of people shot in Tucson, I said, "No way! Even for them this is over the top. What is wrong with those people?" They showed up to the funeral of Randy Shilts, Elizabeth Edwards, our veterans .... why am I surprised?

[NbyNW]

Another point - Palin wasn't the only one to put a cross-hairs on a map. The Daily Kos did it too, but you aren't hearing about it.

Perhaps not to the same extent, but I did see the Daily Kos called out on this in an earlier story today. Don't remember if it was NYT or Huff Post or Wa Post, but I did see it.

For whatever reason, people pay more attention to Palin than Daily Kos, so that's probably why there's more focus on her now.

[PamNY]

Another point - Palin wasn't the only one to put a cross-hairs on a map. The Daily Kos did it too, but you aren't hearing about it.

That's not true. I don't recall where, but I've seen it.

It's not accurate to say that conservatives are being blamed for this. I've seen the question raised about the effect of inflammatory radio and TV personalities, but all reports I've seen make it clear that the alleged shooter is impossible to categorize.

[Biciclista]

Sorry, the guy was a conservative (a registered republican in the state of Arizona),. And it's true that he was "not right" he had mental problems. But that's what happens when strong public figures rant and weak minds listen.
The ultimate responsibility lies in the hands of the shooter, but it is hard not to see the connection between what he did and what some of our loudest public voices are saying:


1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."

2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."

3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impeach him, censure him, assassinate him."

4. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."

5. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

6. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."


I dare you to find a similar list quoting liberal or left leaning public figures.

One of the things that has saddened and disappointed me is the finger pointing towards Conservatives. Why are Conservative's being blamed for this? Apparently the alleged shooter posted to the Daily KOS... not exactly known for it's conservative leanings.

and just because he posted on Daily Kos doesn't mean he wasn't also posting on conservative websites, which they have carefully cleaned off since the shooting.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

[oxysback]

1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."

2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."

3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impeach him, censure him, assassinate him."

4. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."

5. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

6. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."


I dare you to find a similar list quoting liberal or left leaning public figures.

Barack Obama: “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" (said at a Philadelphia fundraiser)

Bill Maher: I have zero doubt that if **** Cheney was not in power, people wouldn’t be dying needlessly tomorrow….I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact."

Liberal radio host, Mike Malloy: "Drudge? Aw, Drudge, somebody ought to wrap a strong Republican entrail around his neck and hoist him up about six feet in the air and watch him bounce."

Chris Matthews: "You guys see Live and Let Die, the great Bond film with Yaphet Kotto as the bad guy, Mr. Big? In the end they jam a big CO2 pellet in his face and he blew up. I have to tell you, Rush Limbaugh is looking more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebody’s going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he’s going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet. But we’ll be there to watch. I think he’s Mr. Big, I think Yaphet Kotto. Are you watching, Rush?"

Spike Lee: If I got (Condi Rice) a** on camera, I would put my Mars Air Jordans so far up her butt that the Mayo Clinic would have to remove them."

[Trek420]

Would everyone please sing kumbaya, hand your so called opposition an IPA, calm down and in the words of a typical parent "I don't care who said what to whom first, or who hit who first (do I use "whom" with that?) stop hitting your siblings". We could go back pretty far in a who hit who first .... I'm not interested.

I am interested in adult discourse because this is where we are now and we need to move forward and talking is the thing that ultimately works. Of course if all you can do is scream obscenities and yell on talk radio we have other problems.

As for locking up the insane some may need that for sure but my goal would be treatment. People are very stressed now, maybe it's the economy, maybe it's whatever but people need access to help if they choose to get it.

I have a friend whose sister has schizophrenia though you would never know it if you met her. She showed early signs of brilliance (the whole family is gifted) but also some disturbing trends. They got care. Result: she is a proud and good parent to an amazing daughter, she has a rewarding job in a health care field ... difference? The family has access to great health care. To any of you in the mental health field my hat's off, you are life savers too.

You know, some think we're crazy because we ride, ride so far, spend buttloads on gear .... do we really want mental hospitals to be the only way?

[Mr. Bloom]

I am interested in adult discourse because this is where we are now and we need to move forward and talking is the thing that ultimately works. Of course if all you can do is scream obscenities and yell on talk radio we have other problems.

Ok, There is a large population in the country who feel disenfranchised right now because they oppose big government, believe in personal responsibility rather than government solutions, and are tired of being called ignorant because they are conservative. They are disenfranchised because they see the mainstream media as biased and as a result their message is only heard when ultra right wing blowhards (like Limbaugh et al.) exaggerate the message. That's unfortunate...but it's the reality to a large number of Americans who see themselves as mainstream...and this thread only reinforces it IMHO

I respect what you think about all this, but I simply disagree.

Now, I have to go shovel the snow off the driveway