Car shopping soon...advice?

[Irulan]

Here's my two cents. I've lived in Chicago, Wyoming, Colorado and have been in Washington state for 20 years. I've done it all 4x4, AWD, FWD, studs, studless...I have had toyota 4x4 trucks, jetta and toyota FWD, subaru, SUVs. Our current vehicles are a FWD Mazda 3 and a Toyota 4 Runner, both with a set of winter wheels with Blizzaks on them.

+1 to driving skills in the snow. The biggest one is slow the F down and the people some space.

4x4, yeah sure it's great and we use ours all the time. We have weekly ski trips and ski patrol duty when we HAVE to be on the mountain an hour before opening. Where 4x4 really rules is in deep snow.On ice they are no better than anything else; ice comes down to your tires and speed. We have the crappiest plowing in the nation, and there have been weeks when 10 days after a 20" dump we still haven't gotten plowed, IN TOWN. and a high clearance vehicleis the only way to get out onto the arterial. I think for your average driver who understands how to drive in the snow it's nice but not necessary. +1 to the false sense of security that some drivers have. I do love our 4 runner in deep snow though...

FWD with snow tires on all four wheels is just fine. The newer vehicles also have traction control which is a nice features. My mazda had an AWD option, but since I was interested in mileage, I did not get it. With good snow tires, (Blizzaks rules) it's terrific, even for ski trips with 6" of snow on the road. I had a Jetta for years, in Wyoming, with winter tires and it was great, had better stick-to-the- roadness than our Toyota 4x4 truck.

Subarus. Solid, very reliable, great snow cars.. However, they have the most uncomfortable seats in the world, and not the greatest mileage. They are getting bigger every year which I find to be hugely disappointing.

Snow tires. The new technology for studless tires made of super sticky winter rubber is amazing. The blizzaks we run on all cars are amazing; we'll never go back to studs. "All-weather" is NOT the same. Good winter tires are a worthwhile investment even though the first purchase will make you choke.

Other comments:
Traction control... many of the the newer vehicles have it and it's a nice feature.
Heated seats. IMSHO, mandatory in winter.
Side mirror defrosters. Really nice
Block heater, if you get deep cold, you need this.
Winter safety kit in the back of the car, needed

Underscore to learning how to drive in the snow. The best car won't save you if you don't understand the physics of snow driving.

Second underscore, some conditions you just shouldn't go out in unless it's an true emergency ( like taking someone to the ER)

[Irulan]

Here's conditions that you really shouldn't go out in. Plus, not having snow tires or skills....

(Portland OR)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk

[SadieKate]

Irulan's post summed all everything very well and as others said, skills and common sense are the number 1 issue but technology can provide such additional safety it should be used when possible.

My only issue is all the comments about Suby gas mileage. Yes, the older ones might having been lacking in this dept but I have a 2010 Outback with the revised automatic Lineartronic™ CVT 4-cylinder Boxer engine. In September we drove about 2,000 miles on a trip with long and short distance hops. The car was loaded to the max with a wide cargo box and we ran the air conditioning most of the time (on max whenever we were on dirt roads). Just as we arrived back at home, the average mpg dropped below 31. If I go through a full tank doing nothing but super short errands I'll still see 23 mpg.

For a tall heavy car with AWD that takes me skiing, fishing, hunting, and exploring on dirt roads (sometimes aptly named Nasty Flat Rd), I'll take it. It's better than my hubby's smaller Audi A4 wagon got. Yeah, it doesn't get 40 mpg, but, frankly, those cars wouldn't be the right tool for the jobs required by my lifestyle anyway. Like Irulan, I need ground clearance just to get out of my driveway at times (Plow? What's a plow?).

We're also on our 6th car with AWD (4 Subies, 1 Audi, 1 Mazda) and have never, ever, ever, had any additional cost with maintaining AWD. It only adds weight which will show in the mileage and potential tire wear but all cars need tire alignment maintenance anyway.

[Jolt]

SadieKate--

LOL about Nasty Flat Road!! As far as the gas mileage you get with your Subaru, that's not too bad, and I'd be looking at the Impreza which probably gets a couple more mpg being smaller. That Suzuki SX4 somebody mentioned looks like another good thing to check out.

Does anyone know anything about the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe? I know they were based on the Corolla but had an AWD option.

[SadieKate]

SadieKate--

LOL about Nasty Flat Road!! As far as the gas mileage you get with your Subaru, that's not too bad, and I'd be looking at the Impreza which probably gets a couple more mpg being smaller. That Suzuki SX4 somebody mentioned looks like another good thing to check out.

If I had decided to go with a smaller car, I'd be all over the Impreza.

[Irulan]

.

Does anyone know anything about the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe? I know they were based on the Corolla but had an AWD option.

I looked very closely at the Matrix. In fact I ran a spread sheet comparing the Mazda 3 and the Matrix, which both come with an AWD option.

I decided on the Mazda3 FWD with traction control. Here's why:

The Mazda offers much more bang for the buck. At the time I was looking the Matrix's trim level was more or less utilitarian and I wanted nicer trim. I chose the Mazda3 GT package, full leather, rain sensor wipers, iPod hook up, five speed, sunroof, upgrade stereo, heated seats, traction control etc and it was still less than the top Matrix package. Plus, the Toyota dealer was really arrogant: I don't have to deal with you, too many people want this car. This was before the economy tanked of course. I opted out of AWD mainly for mileage reasons since we also have a 4X4

Arrogant Toyota salesman or the Mazda guy who actually brought the to me at my house to test drive....that will certainly weight a sale don't you think? Plus I really wanted heated seats....

[Jolt]

Does anyone know anything about the Suzuki Aerio? I believe that's what the SX4 replaced...was just looking at used cars and the Aerios are the ones that will be in my price range. They have the AWD option which is why I am looking at them.

[GLC1968]

Does anyone know anything about the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe? I know they were based on the Corolla but had an AWD option.

We have a 2005 Matrix but opted against the AWD because we lived in NC at the time we bought it. Honestly, we also looked at the Vibe but it felt 'cheap' to us and we kind of felt the same way about the Mazda. Again, this was in 2005, so I have no idea what either of those cars are like now. I like a solid feeling car and I'm not one for extras. I'm of the belief that the more features your car has, the more things that can break. This, of course, coming from someone who was happily driving a Jeep CJ-7 as my first car and never balked at having to get out of the car to lock the hubs in order to run 4 wheel drive.

About my history - I have lived all over this county in all types of conditions. When I learned to drive, it was in the snow before there was front wheel drive. I've owned 4WD, AWD, FrontWD and rearWD cars and driven all of them in the snow and ice. First of all, not all FWD is created equal. And AWD isn't going to help you if it doesn't have the necessary clearance. Thirdly, a reasonably heavy front wheel drive car might be all you'll ever need unless you move to the mountains or the country where plowing is sporatic at best. Even then, chains rock.

So, our Matrix is easily one of the best cars I've ever owned (and I've owned a lot). Ours now has 108K miles on it and it runs wonderfully. When we moved out here, I laughed at the local panic when snow was in the forecast. The first winter we lived here, we got blasted - storm after storm with freeze, melt, freeze for about a week. When there are not enough plows to go around, it creates a disaster area. Think 8" frozen solid ice ruts in the road! Add a bunch of people who have no idea how to drive in winter conditions and plenty of steep hills you get a real mess. I put chains on our Matrix (something I'd never needed in previous places I'd lived including Maine, Wisconsin, Michigan, Massachusetts, and the Pocono mountains). I was so incredibly impressed with how the Matrix handled the conditions with those chains on it. It was amazing! The best part was that when the snow was gone, the chains came off and I got my good mileage back.

I did drive a 2010 Matrix while ours was in for routine maintneance and it sucked. Visibilty was poor, the inside felt 'plasticky', and handling was lousy. If you do still consider a Matrix, opt for an older one. The new ones are lacking in my opinion.

That said, I am eyeing the new Outbacks. We have absolutely no need for a new car at all, but when we are ready, we may consider one. I'm also disappointed in the MPG ratings, but perhaps by then, they'll have improved them even further.

[emily_in_nc]

Just to post a contrarian opinion on the much-beloved Subaru. I had a 2001 Forester I bought new. My first Sube, and I guess I just got unlucky since so many here have had much better experiences. It was great until three years old; then I had repeated problems with the Check Engine light that resulted in multiple and costly repairs. At age 4, the transmission started going out, and since Subaru will only replace, not repair, transmissions, that was going to be a VERY costly repair. At the time I was going through all this, my eyes were opened wide when I googled "Subaru Check Engine light" and "Subaru transmission problems". I was NOT alone. So, the car was only four years old, though I did drive it a lot of miles - had 80K on it. Only got $7K for it b/c of the transmission problem when I traded it in.

I traded it in in 2004 on a Honda Element and have never had a minute's trouble with this vehicle. Sitting at 124K miles now. Gas mileage is very similar to the Forester (both AWD), and with the back seats removed, it carries a LOT more cargo (four bikes, or two bikes, luggage, and a dog crate), or a huge load to Goodwill or the dump. Was sorry to read that it is being discontinued.

[Crankin]

I also had a horrible experience with a Subaru. Granted, it was a long time ago, but I had problem after mechanical problem. I had the car for 15 months, traded it for a Volvo station wagon, which I had for almost 10 years.

[Jolt]

About my history - I have lived all over this county in all types of conditions. When I learned to drive, it was in the snow before there was front wheel drive. I've owned 4WD, AWD, FrontWD and rearWD cars and driven all of them in the snow and ice. First of all, not all FWD is created equal. And AWD isn't going to help you if it doesn't have the necessary clearance. Thirdly, a reasonably heavy front wheel drive car might be all you'll ever need unless you move to the mountains or the country where plowing is sporatic at best. Even then, chains rock.


I did drive a 2010 Matrix while ours was in for routine maintneance and it sucked. Visibilty was poor, the inside felt 'plasticky', and handling was lousy. If you do still consider a Matrix, opt for an older one. The new ones are lacking in my opinion.

As far as a reasonably heavy FWD car being good enough, that does make sense. I had a 1992 Chevy Lumina (hand-me-down from my parents) before getting the Corolla, and that car did really well in the snow b/c it was kind of big and heavy. However, I'm not excited about the idea of going back to a car that size--it's awkward in tight spaces and for one person a big car just doesn't make a lot of sense. Thanks for the info on the Matrix; I would be looking at the older ones since those would be the ones in my price range. I wonder if handling on new Toyotas in general isn't very good...I had a rental for the first day after my accident and it was a very new Camry. I did NOT like the feel of that car...didn't even feel connected to the road, which was especially scary given the experience I had just had. Not sure if it was just because it is a bigger car than I am used to or what, but I was not impressed at all!

[SadieKate]

Snow tires. The new technology for studless tires made of super sticky winter rubber is amazing. The blizzaks we run on all cars are amazing; we'll never go back to studs. "All-weather" is NOT the same. Good winter tires are a worthwhile investment even though the first purchase will make you choke.

Amen.

I am sooo past ready for studs to be outlawed.

Not only the road damage but damage to our cars from flying studs off other cars.

[jessmarimba]

Tulip - born and raised! Lived there til '02 and again from '06-'09. I go back about once a month since I left my SO there and my company's headquarters are in Innsbrook. I just work out of that office.

Jolt - good luck, I think we've inundated you with info! I'm holding off on getting a different car for now but I'll try and remember to pull this thread up next year when it's my turn.

[zoom-zoom]

Snow tires. The new technology for studless tires made of super sticky winter rubber is amazing. The blizzaks we run on all cars are amazing; we'll never go back to studs. "All-weather" is NOT the same. Good winter tires are a worthwhile investment even though the first purchase will make you choke.

My Mazda 3 is, BY FAR the highest HP (by almost 40%), highest torque car I have ever had...but the first car I've ever had with true snow tires for Winter (Blizzaks). It is simply amazing how well it handles in snow. I have on occasion driven AWD (my MIL's Rav 4) with "all-season" tires and traction control and it couldn't begin to compare. "All season" really means all-season-if-you-live-where-it-doesn't-get-below-freezing.

[Irulan]

My Mazda 3 is, BY FAR the highest HP (by almost 40%), highest torque car I have ever had...but the first car I've ever had with true snow tires for Winter (Blizzaks). It is simply amazing how well it handles in snow. I have on occasion driven AWD (my MIL's Rav 4) with "all-season" tires and traction control and it couldn't begin to compare. "All season" really means all-season-if-you-live-where-it-doesn't-get-below-freezing.

the only time I run into trouble is if the snow is so deep that I am highsiding in it -