X-ray backscatter security scanners

[Biciclista]

Knot, you asked why; because some big fat cat sold some other big fat cat a bill of goods.

Donald flew this weekend in bike duds. Worked very well.

no gropes, no xrays.

[OakLeaf]

I would think anything with a chamois would raise the same issues as sanitary pads and incontinence products. Which I would think have to come off, since they just present as pads on the scanners, and they can't tell what's in them by touch. I wonder about breast cysts on a grope-down, too.

Someone outfitted in cycling gear probably looks so bizarre in an airport that they wouldn't fit any profile but isn't the plan to eventually put everyone through the X-rays?

[jessmarimba]

I missed this whole thread yesterday b/c I spent most of the day flying.

I think this entire thing is bull...

What is to stop these hypothetical terrorists from just picking an airport that doesn't have scanners (many say on their websites if they do and what they have)? Or just choosing the lane that doesn't have one? DIA (Denver) has, at the security checkpoint I went to, just two scanners (wave millimeters, not x-ray). Once the guy checks your ticket you could pick from 6 lanes, so I picked one without the machine. Austin-Bergstrom Int'l didn't have them at all. Even if people DON'T get patted down, those machines take way longer than metal detectors, and I keep ending up with weird anomalies and getting felt up anyway. Also overheard from a woman in the bathroom, if you have your period and you're planning to fly, don't go with a pad. It comes up as a red flag and makes the pat-down a huge pain.

BTW, I think the x-ray machines are the ones with the flat panels - the wave mm are the ones where you stand in the circular transporter thing and the walls circle around you.

I hope they reinstate the process that allows people to pay for a massive background check to get clearance to skip all of this crap.

[pumpkinpony]

Also overheard from a woman in the bathroom, if you have your period and you're planning to fly, don't go with a pad. It comes up as a red flag and makes the pat-down a huge pain.

That brings some nasty thoughts to mind. Would they make you take it out and show it to them, right there in public?

[Irulan]

We should all just fly naked.

[Norse]

We should all just fly naked.

But according to the SD article posted by pumpkinpony, TSA doesn't like that either. They INSIST on groping/molesting you or taking a naked picture of you. This is all so stupid anyway and will not prevent a single terrorist attack. Question: How many acts/potential acts of terrorism as TSA prevented? Answer: A big fat ZERO! The terrorists ARE laughing at us. They have succeeded in having our own government take away our rights and dignities.

[Tri Girl]

agreed, NG!

[OakLeaf]

Would they make you take it out and show it to them, right there in public?

You have a right to a private screening (but they'll probably hassle you if you ask for one), and reportedly they've made breast cancer survivors take off their bras and show them their prostheses.

As I posted before, same thing with incontinence pads ... which people don't even have the option of using something internal the way menstruating women do ...

[zoom-zoom]

You have a right to a private screening (but they'll probably hassle you if you ask for one), and reportedly they've made breast cancer survivors take off their bras and show them their prostheses.

As I posted before, same thing with incontinence pads ... which people don't even have the option of using something internal the way menstruating women do ...

But wouldn't tampons and menstrual cups also show as anomalies? Seriously, this is starting to really p!ss me off. I fly to Vegas a week from this Friday and back the following Tues. At this point it is likely I will have my period when I leave. Now I don't know how to deal with that. Last thing I want is to have to remove a tampon or menstrual cup in front of anyone. No one should lose their right to privacy during an already miserable situation.

[MomOnBike]

I'm kind of sensitive to this for many reasons:

1) Whatever happened to the 4th Amendment? You know, the one that says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

(bold mine)

This seems like a textbook case of unreasonable search of my person. Any legal beagles here that have an opinion?

2) I just finished radiation for breast cancer, blast it all. I really don't want or need any more.

3) Speaking of radiation, people are getting radiation in their reproductive organs. This cannot be good for eggs, sperm or developing fetuses.

4) I am not a touchy-feeley type of person. I don't have any desire to be groped. Nor do I wish my daughters to be groped. If I had sons, I wouldn't want strangers messing with their intimate parts. Just. Don't. Touch. Me.

</rant>

Sigh. We bought tickets to Seattle before this was announced. I really want to see my daughter, so I will go, but this will be the absolutely last time I fly.

I'm so old that I remember when we used to feel sorry for the poor Russians because they didn't have the freedom to travel at will in their own country. My right to travel has just been curtailed. I really don't like it. (Hmmm, I guess my rant wasn't quite over, sorry)

[GLC1968]

I'm kind of sensitive to this for many reasons:

1) Whatever happened to the 4th Amendment? You know, the one that says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

(bold mine)

This seems like a textbook case of unreasonable search of my person. Any legal beagles here that have an opinion?

2) I just finished radiation for breast cancer, blast it all. I really don't want or need any more.

3) Speaking of radiation, people are getting radiation in their reproductive organs. This cannot be good for eggs, sperm or developing fetuses.

4) I am not a touchy-feeley type of person. I don't have any desire to be groped. Nor do I wish my daughters to be groped. If I had sons, I wouldn't want strangers messing with their intimate parts. Just. Don't. Touch. Me.

</rant>

Sigh. We bought tickets to Seattle before this was announced. I really want to see my daughter, so I will go, but this will be the absolutely last time I fly.

I'm so old that I remember when we used to feel sorry for the poor Russians because they didn't have the freedom to travel at will in their own country. My right to travel has just been curtailed. I really don't like it. (Hmmm, I guess my rant wasn't quite over, sorry)

The argument is that you give up that right when you opt to get on an airplane. It's not all that different than giving up the right to bear arms on an airplane.

I'm really torn about this whole issue.

I know that the terrorists are totally laughing at us. Hell, most of the world is laughing at us...terrorists or not. This procedure is not doing anything but potentially making the public FEEL that flying is safer than it really is. And yes, both machines (backskatter and mmwave) pose potential health dangers.

On the opposing side, flying is not a right, it's a privilage and as such, is subject to certain terms...and those terms can change as the industry sees fit. Again, not all that dissimiliar to getting a licence in order to drive... I don't like it, but then, I don't have to fly, either. But of course, TSA is not really the 'industry' but a function of the government and that's where my greatest frustration lies.

[smilingcat]

That brings some nasty thoughts to mind. Would they make you take it out and show it to them, right there in public?

What is alleged is that woman's tampons was "ripped" out of her body by a rude TSA agent. Also alleged is that another woman had her vagina penetrated by the finger of a TSA agent. And man who had a bag hooked up to his bladder was ripped off and the urine spilled onto his shirt...

Also alleged is that the TSA agents DO NOT replace the gloves after each enahanced pat down. If you don't care maybe you don't care if you get some bizzaro infection. care for Hep C.?

No thanks.

If TSA was serious about stopping sabotage, hire psychologists who are trained to pick out the nervous traveller or pick out those who are hiding something. EL AL questioning takes less than a minute. No search, no rude questions. Also use bomb sniffing dogs. Dogs can distinguish between fertilizer nitrates versus explosive type nitrates. Nitrogen sniffing machines fail miserably with garden variety fertilizer. The back scatter x-ray goes everywhere so even if you are NOT in the machine, you ARE being exposed. So going for a humiliating enhanced pat-down does you no good.

incompetence and stupidity at its worst! If you find my doodling too offensive, I will remove it. But this is my sentiment. It may not stay up too long.

[KnottedYet]

I'd far rather see more use of sniffer dogs. Less imaging technology. Pat-downs only if the metal detectors and the dogs alert on a passenger.

Dogs stick their noses here and there all the time, trained sniffers do the job without actually touching anything.

Sniffer dogs don't have to look scary, either. I've seen very cute floppy beagles working as sniffers at the airport.

[moonfroggy]

would really like floppy cute beagles
that would work well for me

i am wondering how many people will decide they can't or won't fly after this and how many people would have to decide not to fly for it to have a big enough financial impact on airlines to affect things. i suspect to many people need to fly for work for that to happen. i have friends who need to fly all the time for work who are survivors of all sorts of stuff have all sorts of trauma and i have no idea how they are managing to deal with this. i'm worried about them. for them deciding not to fly would mean getting a new job possibly a career change.

[Jolt]

If TSA was serious about stopping sabotage, hire psychologists who are trained to pick out the nervous traveller or pick out those who are hiding something. EL AL questioning takes less than a minute. No search, no rude questions. Also use bomb sniffing dogs. Dogs can distinguish between fertilizer nitrates versus explosive type nitrates. Nitrogen sniffing machines fail miserably with garden variety fertilizer. The back scatter x-ray goes everywhere so even if you are NOT in the machine, you ARE being exposed. So going for a humiliating enhanced pat-down does you no good.

I agree about increasing use of sniffer dogs. As far as hiring people who are "trained to pick out the nervous traveler", the problem I see with that is that there are a lot of "nervous travelers" who are not terrorists--flying is just plain nerve-racking sometimes. I'd hate to think that I would potentially get in trouble just because I am a bit stressed out by the following: the crowds and lines at the airport, trying to find where I need to go and get there in time, being interrogated (like the person who posted her experience flying from Amsterdam to the US, I had to go through all that when doing so this spring--necessary but still unnerving, like being treated as a criminal), and just the fact that I am about to put myself in a situation where if something goes wrong, it could be really bad news. How would they guard against those kinds of "false positives" so to speak?