"People in Oregon must be poor."

[Trek420]

maillotpois "We live up hill from school. Up a 12 - 16% grade! So no way am I letting her ride down that yet!!! "

But just think if she could ride UP it?

[doc]

V - great thread.
There have been several studies about outdoor play in the city. Inner city kids in impoverished neighborhoods have significantly reduced outdoor play time. Mothers report they are afraid that their child will get hurt. By which they mean shot, beaten, robbed, raped, killed etc. The studies correlated high crime areas with low outdoor activity. That's really sad. But I can hardly blame those parents.

As for the rest? I don't understand it. I live in a nice upscale suburb and the only times kids play with other kids is when it is pre-arranged as a "play date". God forbid your kid shows up with a basketball or something at someone's house unannounced. I would love it if kids did it but there is some unwritten law that it is not allowed. But at least I work hard to make sure my kids have lots of "play dates".

I work in a blue collar city. Obesity is rampant. I'm talking 280 lb 18 year old girls. Yet parent after parent admits to me that there is a TV in the kid's room, plus the gameboy and computer games. And that's all he does after school. I could go on and on.

My personal goal is to increase breast feeding. Besides obesity (which breastfeeding reduces significantly) the city where I work has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the country. With blacks having a rate 3 times as high as whites. There was a national study published this month measuring childhood health in the USA. The "deep south" (NC, SC, AL, Miss, Louisiana, Ark, Tenn) scored more than one standard deviation below the rest of the country. Meanwhile, the response mothers give me when I ask why they aren't breastfeeding? "It's yucky." Breastfeeding alone reduces infant mortality in the USA (not some 3rd world country) by 22% !!! Aaaargh.

OK I degressed. If there is anyone out there who wants to talk breastfeeding, look me up!

[bouncybouncy]

We too were just discussing...

i was not breastfed only because i came out sick...my Mom wanted to! so she did the next best thing...bought the freshest veggies, chicken, etc...and pureed them herself. i guess it worked because i am healthy (a rare stat i suppose?) my best friend treats her breast milk better than gold and who could blame her?

i also was fortunate enough to grow up on a military base (not that bad things do not go on there) but it seems that "neighborly" closeness is more abundant in that environment. my heart goes out to kids who don't experience that kind of freedom...
not too long ago was a story on the news...a bus driver forced a 4 year old off her bus in a strange neighborhood cause he got on the wrong bus. the kids older brother recognized him and took him home WHAT WAS SHE THINKING????

one more recent thing i have been dealing with is the ridicule i have been given because i say i want to commute to work by BICYCLE EGADS...what am i thinking????? a typical ride is 40-60 miles (not lately unfortunately) on flat land...now i am thinking 13 miles isn't so bad (20 on beautiful days going the long way) in the hills. when we mountain bike it is usually about 20 miles...so why is 13 miles such an issue, but even more-so, why do i get so angry when people scough at my intentions? I may not be able to do it everyday right away but after a while i figure it will get easier and easier. why is it we feel so enslaved by our cars? my bosses think we are nuts for considering only owning one car (2 people, one works from home, the other plans to commute by bicycle for the most part and no kids) why is that so crazy

i ask...when did it happen? what generation was it? that decided riding a bike or walking somewhere was such a crazy idea? i see people DRIVING all the way to the mall to WALK CIRCLES...

i am babbling now...so i will just say one last thing...i am glad to hear there are people out there that are not just sitting back complaining, they are filling out the paperwork and riding alongside so their kid can experience to joy of riding his/her bike to school...and there are parents out there that are not completely overwhelmed with overprotectiveness that they let their kids go out and play...thank you! I hope it is contagious!!!

[cindysue]

.a bus driver forced a 4 year old off her bus in a strange neighborhood cause he got on the wrong bus. the kids older brother recognized him and took him home WHAT WAS SHE THINKING????

better question: what the heck is a 4 year old doing by his/herself in the first place?

[Crankin]

Excellent thread. I grew up in a "close in" suburb of Boston. I spent all of my time playing in the woods or just "out in the street." I remember gangs of kids on their bikes, out until it was dark. I was going into Boston on the trolley, alone or with friends when i was 12.
That said, I noticed a distinct difference when I moved to sunbelt states at 16 and 21 (Florida and AZ). No kids out on the street. No teens riding bikes. No public transportation.... This was one of the reasons we left AZ. The saddest day was when my then 3 year old went into the shrub bed in front of our house in Tempe and said, "Look Mom, I'm in the woods!" Anyway, to make a long story short, my kids, now 21 and 23 played out in the woods. They made forts. They jumped off the deck into the snow and all kinds of sort of dangerous things. When they were young we lived almost 10 miles from their school, but when we moved my youngest rode his bike to school in middle school. He saved for a mountain bike and that very act change our whole family! He started riding, got a road bike, started racing, my husband started riding, then I did. If I hadn't let him ride to school, we wouldn't be riding now. They also did electronic things, especially computer games, but we limited it. By the way, I always worked, they were in daycare, we had a nanny, etc. and I didn't breast feed. I see many of the same comments from my students, Veronica. We went on a short hike on a trail for a science lesson andout of the 75 kids on my team, I'd say about 12 knew how to act in the woods, without complaining. They are not allowed to play outside, unless it's a structured activity. My kids spent many mornings laughing at the other moms and dads on our cul de sac who drove their kids to the bus stop... when our kids were standing out in the rain or snow....

[massbikebabe]

My oldest is going to college in Boston in the fall. She was not worried about how she would get around...she just assumed we would find her a bike small enough for her to commute on...



karen

[betagirl]

Wow, interesting thread. I'm not a sociologist but a clinical psychologist in training. So I can add my 2 bits from a "professional" standpoint, but I'd rather just voice my opinion in general

I'm one of the approximately 1/3 of "gen X" (I just turned 30) who has decided not to have children. Many people who are either in the other 2/3's or other generations attribute this to me being "selfish." Now I may change my mind at some point in my 30's, but right now I highly doubt it. My clock isn't ticking. Anyway, is it being selfish? Maybe a little. I like my lifestyle, which includes traveling, working, going to school, hanging out with my friends, and basically not being "tied down." I enjoy children immensely when they're not mine.

But I have to agree with the statements about kids being raised on xbox verus bikes. Grant it, I had a TV in my room when I was a kid and grew up on "sesame street" etc. But we were really active kids. There were no such things as "play dates" or the like. We all got together in the neighborhood and ran our a**es off til it got dark. Gotta be home when the street lights come on I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, so it wasn't a bad area. There were still abductions, I'd guess as many as there are now. But as has been said, it wasn't all over the news as much and we didn't have "amber alerts" or the like.

I don't know if you watch the Simpsons but there's an episode when Krusty the Clown's show gets really boring so the kids all go outside to play. When they step out they have to rub their eyes and adjust to the sunshine. Unfortunately that's a very accurate social commentary, and I think it's getting worse. With the pervasive fear-mongering going on via the media, I can understand why some parents would be worried about their kids safety. So instead we're raising a generation of overweight kids with really good hand-eye coordination.

I'm sort of all over the place in this post, but I think I want to mention the story I saw recently on the news that Americans are getting more accepting of being "fat" because so many are overweight/obese. That floored me, even if I understand it psychologically. Why fight the inevitable right? Yet we pump billions of dollars into the "fad diet" market, and billions more into the healthcare system to treat adult onset diabetes, heart disease, and other "lifestyle" illness. It's sad.

If I do have kids, I plan on having them ride a bicycle out of my womb.

[Lise]

Hi, all, great thread.

I rode my bike all over as a kid, and the best feeling I have on my bike nowadays is that feeling of freedom I had, almost flying on my bike. It's one of my happiest memories. There were tons of bikes at every school and park, because everybody rode their bikes.

I work at a city health clinic in a neighborhood in Chicago where my bike would be stripped in a heartbeat if I locked it outside. I got permission from the clinic administrator to lock it downstairs in the womens' locker room. The last time I rode to work, the security guard followed me, yelling, "You can't bring a bike in here!" Jeez. If they had a safe place for more people to lock their bikes, maybe we'd see less disease. That stupid little incident aside, Chicago is a bike-friendly city in a lot of ways. Our mayor, Richie-Baby-Doc-Daley-Mayor-For-Life, is a cyclist.

Breastfeeding. Obese kids. Don't get me started. In as few words as possible: Rich people get richer off the misery of the poor by selling them formula, junk food, and gadgets. And how about early, early onset of menses, largely due to the hormones in milk and meat, and the high fat diets? Sad times for the human race. Our abundance has some horrible downsides.

Lise

[betagirl]

Chicago is a bike-friendly city in a lot of ways. Our mayor, Richie-Baby-Doc-Daley-Mayor-For-Life, is a cyclist.

LOL

I remember the day I went to work and he ripped up Meigs overnight. I worked on the 46th floor of the Aon building and my window faced south. I looked out and saw these huge black x's on the runways. I was like WTF.....ohhhhhhhh.....nice.

[FelesRidet]

There's a great book that came out last year by Judith Warner: Perfect Madness, Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety.

Every generation has a different culture or definition of what good parents should do. Our current culture is immersed in anxiety - about their childrens' education, their future prospects, their safety. As a result, we have become hyper-concerned about micromanaging every aspect of our children's lives.

It has often startled me when I got disapproving looks for: letting my children play in the mud, go without shoes, dress themselves (badly). Now my kids are older and still the mothers in my scout troop freak out if their daughters get their shoes wet!

[doc]

It has often startled me when I got disapproving looks for: letting my children play in the mud, go without shoes, dress themselves (badly). Now my kids are older and still the mothers in my scout troop freak out if their daughters get their shoes wet!

Hear Hear!! My sister's theory is "A dirty boy is a happy boy" and I'm sure she's right. She has two sons. I have daughters who are naturally averse to mud. So I think the female corollary has something to do with how badly they dress themselves and their rat's nest of long hair that they fixed themselves. I am sure people who don't have kids look at them and think "What an awful mother those girls have. She doesn't care about their appearance..." Sensible parents who have been there certainly laugh to themselves and know the kids dressed and groomed themselves because Mommy was absolutely not allowed to help!

I can't imagine what the anxiety ridden mother's say!!!

[mimitabby]

I just read a blog about this:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/11...un-column.html

Lenore Skenazy wrote a piece for the April 4 edition of the New York Sun about letting her 9-year-old son find his way home from downtown NYC using the subway system. Many people were upset with her.

Isn’t New York as safe now as it was in 1963? It’s not like we’re living in downtown Baghdad.

[jobob]

Rats.

I was thinking to myself "cool, betagirl is back!" but then I realized this thread was over 2 years old.

[Trek420]

I kinda bumped it up. A new TE'er brought up the experience of being mistaken for a homeless person because she was riding a bike

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=22674

I remembered this was a good discussion of the issue, an old fave thread.

Sorry for the confusion this has caused.

[mimitabby]

Sorry about that, i couldn't resist. This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I tried very hard to raise my sons with freedom... and most people said to me; "welll, if they were girls you would have done it differently"