"People in Oregon must be poor."

[Duck on Wheels]

happy birthday massbikebabe who wrote
"2. Child abduction/abuse. I believe this has always been a part of our history however today the media is doing a marvelous job bringing it to our attention."

Yep. I remember the time we were at the old Safeway across from Rosenbergs. This must have been just before your time, Trek. Big Brother needed to use the bathroom. Safeway didn't have one, so he walked across to Rosenbergs. When he still wasn't back half an hour later, Mom panicked. I remember riding around in the back of a squad car, mom in tears up front, when we finally found him ... at the news stand next door to the Safeway, reading comics. But the panic was real. Abductions really did happen.

Is there a sociologist in the house?

Ok. Ok. Yes, I admit it. I'm a sociologist. I don't know the sociology of biking in the US. But as it happens, I just read the home newspapers on the net and was shocked to discover something about the sociology of hiking in Norway -- it's racist! There are hikers out there who have written in letters-to-editors complaining that their experience of the great outdoors is spoiled if they encounter dark-skinned foreigners out there. I'm ashamed and shocked! Somehow the Nazi-poster images of nordicism have survived, linking mountains and sportiness with blondness. We've gotta put an end to that image-association! But back to biking in the US. Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if there were imagery-links for biking too. We know they exist for other sports: Soccer intellectual/football working class; volleyball academic/ basketball blue collar; figure skating feminine/hockey macho; and so on and so on. So sure, quality road bike = yuppie/rugged style bike = poor. In some people's imaginations. Again, it's an imagery we need to try to dismantle.

[ladyfish]

As a Mom of two boys (9 and 12) and I stay at home, I've seen the range. Right now my older son is off on a 10 mile hike with the Boy Scouts. My younger son is outside playing with neighbors. That seems to be the exception rather than the rule around here.

My younger son has been begging me to let him ride his bike to school. We've been walking to school every day (again, exception not norm). So I finally got the paper (yes, the school requires paperwork in order for a child to ride to school!) and filled it out. Now he is riding (and I ride with him). Granted it's winter (but it's been mild), but his is the ONLY bike at the school.

So here's what I see from my perspective. We are the exception in our neighborhood of those that walk or bike to school. The other Mom's all drive (and none carpool). Two other Moms walk regularly. Two others are sporadic in their walking. Realize, we all live within a few blocks of one another. I think it is just *easier* for them to hop in the car and go rather than walk or coordinate a carpool. Realize that it probably only takes us an extra 10 minutes to walk than it does for them to drive, due to traffic issues. (And biking is FASTER than driving because of traffic). So are we getting more lazy as a society, I think yes. Do we look for the quick solution, yes. Is this the best solution, no.

Sometimes I think the neighbors look at me funny and wonder why I let my son walk/ride to school and walk our dog alone in our neighborhood. I do worry about him, and many times he has a walkie talkie with him on his walks. But I think he needs to be a boy, and go out and play and explore. He LOVES to be outside and would rather do that than play electronic games or watch TV. I just have to let go a bit and believe that most people in the world are good and that he has a guardian angel watching him. Lets face it, he could get hurt/snatched from school too, but no one seems to think twice about that.

I remember playing outside until dark. Riding my bike to the store. Riding my bike to school. I also remember the man who stopped me and was doing lewd things and "asking" for directions. I just took off on a round-about route home and made sure he wasn't following me. I also was thinking of which neighbor's house I could dart into so he wouldn't know where I lived if he did try to follow me. So we have to let our kids grow up and face the world rather than hide from it. If others would follow along, then playing outside and riding bikes might become the norm again.

My very long two cents worth!

Cathy

[maillotpois]

My 9 year old walks to and from school frequently, but she can't ride her bike there. Why? We live up hill from school. Up a 12 - 16% grade! So no way am I letting her ride down that yet!!!

[Bike Goddess]

Yes, our society is now wrapped in fear. Fear of attack from everywhere. For childern that live in the "flatlands" and can safely ride to school but don't- I'll bet some of it is from parental fear.

If one does a check of abductions, it is a very very small number. BUT the media makes such a big deal, (remember the media often focuses on the negative, not the positive) that people think everyone is a suspect.

Also as others have said here, more convenient for Mom to take kids to school.

If I look at what happens to cyclists on the road, we too take many chances. Last year, for example, in No Cal 3 cyclists. in the space of about two weeks, were killed by drunk drivers in the daylight no less. Does that stop me from going out for fear that I am going to get run over? No. I take my chances, and I have my cell phone on.

BTW did you know that some cells have a program whereby you can be in the GPS monitor when your phone is on?

Thanks V. Good conversation to have!

[Trek420]

maillotpois "We live up hill from school. Up a 12 - 16% grade! So no way am I letting her ride down that yet!!! "

But just think if she could ride UP it?

[doc]

V - great thread.
There have been several studies about outdoor play in the city. Inner city kids in impoverished neighborhoods have significantly reduced outdoor play time. Mothers report they are afraid that their child will get hurt. By which they mean shot, beaten, robbed, raped, killed etc. The studies correlated high crime areas with low outdoor activity. That's really sad. But I can hardly blame those parents.

As for the rest? I don't understand it. I live in a nice upscale suburb and the only times kids play with other kids is when it is pre-arranged as a "play date". God forbid your kid shows up with a basketball or something at someone's house unannounced. I would love it if kids did it but there is some unwritten law that it is not allowed. But at least I work hard to make sure my kids have lots of "play dates".

I work in a blue collar city. Obesity is rampant. I'm talking 280 lb 18 year old girls. Yet parent after parent admits to me that there is a TV in the kid's room, plus the gameboy and computer games. And that's all he does after school. I could go on and on.

My personal goal is to increase breast feeding. Besides obesity (which breastfeeding reduces significantly) the city where I work has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the country. With blacks having a rate 3 times as high as whites. There was a national study published this month measuring childhood health in the USA. The "deep south" (NC, SC, AL, Miss, Louisiana, Ark, Tenn) scored more than one standard deviation below the rest of the country. Meanwhile, the response mothers give me when I ask why they aren't breastfeeding? "It's yucky." Breastfeeding alone reduces infant mortality in the USA (not some 3rd world country) by 22% !!! Aaaargh.

OK I degressed. If there is anyone out there who wants to talk breastfeeding, look me up!

[bouncybouncy]

We too were just discussing...

i was not breastfed only because i came out sick...my Mom wanted to! so she did the next best thing...bought the freshest veggies, chicken, etc...and pureed them herself. i guess it worked because i am healthy (a rare stat i suppose?) my best friend treats her breast milk better than gold and who could blame her?

i also was fortunate enough to grow up on a military base (not that bad things do not go on there) but it seems that "neighborly" closeness is more abundant in that environment. my heart goes out to kids who don't experience that kind of freedom...
not too long ago was a story on the news...a bus driver forced a 4 year old off her bus in a strange neighborhood cause he got on the wrong bus. the kids older brother recognized him and took him home WHAT WAS SHE THINKING????

one more recent thing i have been dealing with is the ridicule i have been given because i say i want to commute to work by BICYCLE EGADS...what am i thinking????? a typical ride is 40-60 miles (not lately unfortunately) on flat land...now i am thinking 13 miles isn't so bad (20 on beautiful days going the long way) in the hills. when we mountain bike it is usually about 20 miles...so why is 13 miles such an issue, but even more-so, why do i get so angry when people scough at my intentions? I may not be able to do it everyday right away but after a while i figure it will get easier and easier. why is it we feel so enslaved by our cars? my bosses think we are nuts for considering only owning one car (2 people, one works from home, the other plans to commute by bicycle for the most part and no kids) why is that so crazy

i ask...when did it happen? what generation was it? that decided riding a bike or walking somewhere was such a crazy idea? i see people DRIVING all the way to the mall to WALK CIRCLES...

i am babbling now...so i will just say one last thing...i am glad to hear there are people out there that are not just sitting back complaining, they are filling out the paperwork and riding alongside so their kid can experience to joy of riding his/her bike to school...and there are parents out there that are not completely overwhelmed with overprotectiveness that they let their kids go out and play...thank you! I hope it is contagious!!!

[cindysue]

.a bus driver forced a 4 year old off her bus in a strange neighborhood cause he got on the wrong bus. the kids older brother recognized him and took him home WHAT WAS SHE THINKING????

better question: what the heck is a 4 year old doing by his/herself in the first place?

[Lise]

Hi, all, great thread.

I rode my bike all over as a kid, and the best feeling I have on my bike nowadays is that feeling of freedom I had, almost flying on my bike. It's one of my happiest memories. There were tons of bikes at every school and park, because everybody rode their bikes.

I work at a city health clinic in a neighborhood in Chicago where my bike would be stripped in a heartbeat if I locked it outside. I got permission from the clinic administrator to lock it downstairs in the womens' locker room. The last time I rode to work, the security guard followed me, yelling, "You can't bring a bike in here!" Jeez. If they had a safe place for more people to lock their bikes, maybe we'd see less disease. That stupid little incident aside, Chicago is a bike-friendly city in a lot of ways. Our mayor, Richie-Baby-Doc-Daley-Mayor-For-Life, is a cyclist.

Breastfeeding. Obese kids. Don't get me started. In as few words as possible: Rich people get richer off the misery of the poor by selling them formula, junk food, and gadgets. And how about early, early onset of menses, largely due to the hormones in milk and meat, and the high fat diets? Sad times for the human race. Our abundance has some horrible downsides.

Lise

[mimitabby]

I just read a blog about this:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/11...un-column.html

Lenore Skenazy wrote a piece for the April 4 edition of the New York Sun about letting her 9-year-old son find his way home from downtown NYC using the subway system. Many people were upset with her.

Isn’t New York as safe now as it was in 1963? It’s not like we’re living in downtown Baghdad.