Awesome!!

[bikegurl]

If some of the cities in America became more bike-friendly, it would help our neighborhoods (more people being in contact with each other, instead of consumed with their little world inside their car) and I think it would have a lot of other good effects, too. Where I live, many people are extremely poor. Often their car is an ego thing. If somehow, the need to have a car was changed, it seems that it might help America's poverty-stricken neighborhoods. Having a more bike-friendly system would probably also help the obesity problem!

[Charlotte Berry]

Here, people see riding a bike from a store with some groceries in the front basket means only one thing. It supposed to mean you are too poor to own a car, and what usually happens is people flip you off or they shout out the window to either get a car, or get a job! It used to happen to me, so I stopped running errands with the bike. Funny thing too cause I had three cars at my disposal. Just riding a racing, Cross or MB for exercise is barely accepted. It just means they accept the fact you are likely not poor and actually are doing it for exercise, but I heard other ridicules come forth, like you actually have time to ride a bike? What don't you get a life instead?

Lot of prejudice and ignorance built into the old culture. I can't wait for Gas to hit five dollars a quart, bring it on!

[Owlie]

That stereotype--riding a bike means you're too poor to afford a car--is often true here in the eastern half of the Cleveland, especially as the public transport fares keep increasing and they keep cutting back service(another rant entirely). Either that, or you're a college/grad student who doesn't want to walk the half mile to campus and grocery store.

[emily_in_nc]

It's just sad how the car is king in the US and anyone doing anything different (riding a bike or walking) is suspect. This morning it was chilly with a light rain, so instead of our usual ride to the farmer's market and food co-op, DH and I layered up, grabbed our backpacks, and walked to the bus stop, took the free bus into town, walked some quite a ways more to the market, then turned around and came back the same way. Ended up with about 5-6 miles of walking in addition to the bus trip. The only other walkers we saw were downtown, and everyone on the bus besides us looked a bit down on their luck. Cars were everywhere, and I'm sure at least a few of the drivers wondered what in the world we were doing walking in the rain with backpacks. The only cyclists we saw were a few college students on campus.

Oh to live in a place like the Netherlands, where biking (for adults) is just considered normal.

[Charlotte Berry]

Another thing is here kids throw rocks at cyclists, and even adults throw beer cans at cyclists. I even heard cow patties were thrown at cyclists and a friend once told me he was out riding and a group of cowboys dumped a bucket of you know what on him. We cyclists get the beat down in every which way. Another thing too is if you are riding a beat up bike, cops think you are a drug dealer.

Can't win, only persevere.

[Owlie]

No one flings abuse or anything else at cyclists (at least, not that I've noticed), probably because it's a fairly common sight. Cleveland isn't wealthy (hence the "can't afford a car" cyclists), and since I live near a university with a lot of graduate and medical students, I see a fair number of bikes. Fairly minimal hostilities, probably because people are used to them.

Riding on the sidewalk is perfectly legal here (at least, in most places), so people just ride on it.

Cleveland itself is trying to become more bike-friendly. The re-vamp of one of the main streets included a bike lane, and they just painted a bike lane near me. Granted, the former disappears and reappears randomly (and you have to make sure you don't get squashed by buses!) and the latter appears to double as street parking. I'll give them points for trying. On the other hand, we had that bridge project that failed.

[Charlotte Berry]

Here, we have the new University by the lake. The whole area is very modern and progressive. Many upscale homes, and bikes fit there, as you say, exactly. However when you go outside of that cubicle, you enter the mainstream retro culture where bikes are still seen as a nuisance. I remember a few years back even a Highway Patrol officer pulled me over one day and lectured me about how bikes just don't belong on the road, can you believe it?

The more you go into the rural countryside, the more contact with farmers and ranchers who clearly see bikes as an obstacle. On the highways where are perfectly legal, a few are known as death alley or blood alley here. Known that way because of so many deaths from car crashes, but not to forget the bikes deaths either. One infamous accident claimed the lives of two couples riding tandems. A young girl was reaching down to change the tape in her music cassette player she said, and that is why she did not see or know that she hit and killed 4 people on two tandems. How tragic beyond words. So here highways are very dangerous and I never ever use them. I use to, and it was really scary. I remember truck drivers used to go out of their way to hit me and I just would run off the road, and then I would look back to them and see them laughing in the mirror of their big Mac Trucks. They weren’t really trying to kill me, but run me off the road cause they think it’s funny.

The only safe bet here is the side roads, or the country roads, but for women, they are mostly afraid to use them without company, predators, lot of field workers and Hicks driving around, not to be trusted. It's a very dicey thing for women here on bikes. I know women who said they quit riding cause they just got too many taunts out on the road. Our culture is so extremely backwards compared to the Dutch or the Danes regarding the use of bikes as both transportation and exercise. Why are we so retro Romanistic, I don't know but the good news is possibly the end of cheap oil might force a culture change, and force people onto the bikes. However in the face of the vast expanses of the USA, it does not seem practical for extreme distances. More then likely what will happen is the end of urban sprawl, and more of the close knit community thing where biking is so much more practical.

When I talked to my friend in Amsterdam, he said everything he needs, even the most extreme out of the way place for his needs is not more then ten miles away. That is the key for those who use bikes in Holland or Denmark. In American, our model is backwards. We want to stretch everything out to as far as possible. Our version of urban sprawl must end. However you should know after living in Holland most of his life, he is also concerned Holland/NL is also becoming a very crowded place.

[channlluv]

Another thing is here kids throw rocks at cyclists, and even adults throw beer cans at cyclists. I even heard cow patties were thrown at cyclists and a friend once told me he was out riding and a group of cowboys dumped a bucket of you know what on him. We cyclists get the beat down in every which way. Another thing too is if you are riding a beat up bike, cops think you are a drug dealer.

Can't win, only persevere.

Geez, Charlotte, where are you?

Roxy

[Charlotte Berry]

I'm in California too, but there is big difference between the progressive coastal way of life, and the Redneck central valley. Good Grief, even Imax couldn't cut it in the central valley cause the valley culture are just not hip like the coastal culture. On the coast there is more of a health conscious ride your bike mentality, but in the valley, it's very closed minded. People don't think much of riding their bikes cause riding out of town only offers ranches and crop fields. Not a pretty place, smoggy too, dirty filthy air. No ocean breeze in the valley! The outskirts of the valley into the foothills, even worse. Full of Rednecks and illiterate children. I used to live in the valley, hated it. Now I live in the mountains, but the people are not hip, very behind the times. Air and water is better though at 2500 feet. Here no one rides a bike because going uphill is too hard. Lots of fat people here.

[featuretile]

Charlotte, I am so amazed at what you say about the central valley. I live on the coast and there are lots of cyclists. The drivers are pretty good. I try to stay away as much as possible from the main streets and ride in the country. I did not realize how fortunate I am. I did do a ride out by Fresno on the Blossom Trail route (where they do the century when the fruit trees bloom) and did not notice any problem, but maybe they are more used to cyclists since they do have a ride out there. I also did some riding on the American River trail by Sacramento.

I don't understand why drivers would have so much animosity towards cyclists.
I hope that will change some day in all parts of the country.

[emily_in_nc]

I don't understand why drivers would have so much animosity towards cyclists.
I hope that will change some day in all parts of the country.

It will change, I think, when gas prices rise significantly enough to get a lot more people on bikes, people who perhaps looked down on adults on bikes before. Until then, I don't think we'll see any significant changes in motorist attitudes.

[Charlotte Berry]

Those rides are usually in the spring when the air is clean and the trees are in bloom. Spring is nice, pretty, but that quickly turns into a very stagnant dry hot valley with really dirty air. It's been rated as the worst in the nation at times. But consider power in numbers, safety and confidence. Riding alone is never recommended, but there is power in numbers. I think when you see the massive numbers of bikes on the road like Holland, it sends a powerful statement to everyone. There is power in numbers, and it also commands a great deal of respect versus any one lone rider. I’m not sure critical mass is the answer, as that seems offensive and standoffish. How about instead that Critical mass just divided up into smaller segments all over the city to show us how it’s done Holland style? Don’t you think that would have a much broader positive impact then a pissing contest with motorists?

[marni]

When we moved there in 1976, at that point, the population density was the same to the density that you would get if you moved the entire population of the USA into the four states of MA, NH, VT and CT. And yet in spite of that there were still tremendous amounts of green space, farm fields, nature reserves and intercity open space. They tend to go up rather than out, and even then the popular jokes were all along the lines of "the Netherlands is so small that......"

Of course that was back before the majority of the north sea oil development, and it definitely changed a bit in feel, with quite a lot of development while we were there.


When I talked to my friend in Amsterdam, he said everything he needs, even the most extreme out of the way place for his needs is not more then ten miles away. That is the key for those who use bikes in Holland or Denmark. In American, our model is backwards. We want to stretch everything out to as far as possible. Our version of urban sprawl must end. However you should know after living in Holland most of his life, he is also concerned Holland/NL is also becoming a very crowded place.[/QUOTE]

[Charlotte Berry]

Back to business tomorrow. It's been a fun thread.

See ya!