2 cyclists pulled over by police on Cedar River Trail.

[Eden]

I don't think anyone would disagree that going slow on a MUP when there are others around is a bad idea - but limiting the entire length of the trail to 10mph is nonsensical - especially as the further one gets from the parks the fewer and fewer other people you see period, much less other people who are not also riding bicycles.

Expecting people to slow down near the parks and other highly used areas is not unreasonable. Forcing cyclists to crawl along the entire 17 miles - not so reasonable - especially when the city also supposedly espouses views like this .....supports a city where residents and visitors can enjoy recreation and exercise contributing to a healthy lifestyle, and where commuting by bicycle using an integrated trails/road network, becomes a realistic transportation alternative. C'mon.... if you actually used this trail to commute and went the length of it, it would take almost 2 hours... that certainly doesn't sound like a realistic transportation option to me.

A cyclist was killed in Renton not too long before this - maybe 6 months or so. No one suggested that the street should be closed to cars or that the speed limit might be too fast on it. (of course not, they just blamed the cyclist as usual - even though, if I'm remembering properly, the car ran a light or a stop sign....)

[kelownagirl]

Our multi-use greenway trail is essentially a wide, flat gravel road along the river. The speed limit is 10km per hour. That's only 6 mph. I can hardly stay upright on my bike at that speed. NOBODY goes that speed, not even the people riding slowly. I ride faster and take great care by slowing down when I'm near pedestrians etc.

[OakLeaf]

What I said before ... it's got little to do with absolute speed, and everything to do with relative speed among road/trail users.

10 mph is TRIPLE the average human walking speed, and FIVE TIMES what children and mobility-impaired adults - the kind of people you're likely to find on a MUP - are likely to be doing.

Just as there's nothing inherently unsafe about driving your car at 120 on an empty piece of straight, flat four-lane out west where there's not another car for 100 miles, there's nothing inherently unsafe about riding your bike at 20 on a MUP. The trouble comes when there's other traffic.

Sure it burns me if I get a ticket for speeding in my car or bike when it was obviously safe to do so. But I eat it, because them's the rules and they got me fair and square. It would burn me if I got a speeding ticket on the bici when it was obviously safe to do so, too. One thing missing from the OP is whether or not there was any other traffic. Another thing missing from the discussion is that the cyclists in question were ticketed for doing TWICE the limit and a speed that IMO should just not happen on a MUP.

This goes back to the discussions about the penalties when automobile drivers kill bicyclists, too. I've been thinking a lot about that and the position that a few here - and most automobile drivers - take, that it's "just an accident." Actually, I tend to agree ... if people are doing stuff in/on their vehicles 24/7 that makes it just a matter of LUCK that they don't kill someone, then when they DO kill someone, well, it WAS just a matter of luck, and that's why so many people think they shouldn't be punished for it. The problem happens way before that, when they decide to take their chances with other people's lives.

They ... WE ... should be punished severely when we take chances with other people's lives. Not only when other people lose the bet that they didn't know they were making with us.

[Eden]

Sorry Oak - I don't agree at all about auto "accidents"

Yes indeed there can be true accidents in an automobile. A child can dart out into the road suddenly, someone dressed all in black can be crossing the street in the dead of night, a road can be unexpectedly slippery, but I believe more collisions are caused by aggressive and neglectful driving than are really and truly accidents.

The plain fact is that when you get behind the wheel you need to recognize that you are stepping into an inherently dangerous machine. If you are not prepared to take that responsibility and take *extra* measures to ensure the safety of others, by not driving distracted/drunk/sleepy, not using excessive speed, not being aggressive, by focusing solely on the task at hand, which is driving safely, you shouldn't be driving.

A bicycle is not the same. It is not a machine that kills tens of thousands of people every year. Even an aggressive or neglectful cyclist is unlikely to kill anyone. Fatal cyclist/pedestrian accidents are quite rare - you could probably count on your fingers the numbers that have happened in the last 10 years.... While it still isn't acceptable to ride this way, its just not the same...

[smilingcat]

The plain fact is that when you get behind the wheel you need to recognize that you are stepping into an inherently dangerous machine. If you are not prepared to take that responsibility and take *extra* measures to ensure the safety of others, by not driving distracted/drunk/sleepy, not using excessive speed, not being aggressive, by focusing solely on the task at hand, which is driving safely, you shouldn't be driving.

The other aspect people fail to realize that THERE IS A CONSEQUENCE when you "buzz" a pedestrian walking on the edge of sidewalk or bicyclist riding on the road. Trying to teach a cyclist a lesson does lead to serious injury for the cyclist. "I didn't mean to hit the cyclist" is a very poor excuse.

Now for the matter of discussion:

As a matter of being a manager, not only are you worried about getting the widgets out on time, if you are in manufacturing, you also think about liability mitigation. Can I deliver per contract. Is the product safe? For a city manager, he not only has to worry, is the city maintained properly? Are the city services being fulfilled to expectation? Fire? Police? And one of his BIGGEST responsibility is mitigating any possible lawsuits: fix the uneven sidewalk so no one trips and gets hurt, fix that pot hole that may cause serious injury if a car went out of control because of it... Does the busy intersection need to be upgraded from a stop sign to a traffic light?

City manager's hand is quite full, so like anyone else, goes for the easiest fix. It's also the cleanest thing to do when you get dragged into court. People have a "very difficult" time following the simplist of rules so it behooves the cities to make the rule as simple as possible. Not that it ever is. The 10MPH limit on the MUT being 3x the walking speed is in keeping with reasonable compromise. As for the entire 17 mile MUT, well it was the easy thing to do.

Would someone fund a study to say when the MUT isn't so busy to allow cyclists to go faster at certain time of the day, day of the week? Almost all municipalities are severely in red and can't afford it. It's expedient, cheaper, and mitigating of potential lawsuit, so 17 mile MUT has a speed limit of 10MPH.

It is about as simple as I can make it.

I don't like it either. But I do have to share and live with everyone else who thinks otherwise.

[XMcShiftersonX]

One thing missing from the OP is whether or not there was any other traffic.

There was actually very little traffic on the trail at this particular time. It was early in the morning, as it usually is when I'm walking my dog there. The cyclists had just passed me a few seconds earlier, and far in the distance I could see someone walking towards me in the opposite lane. But, they were pretty far up there. I saw maybe a handful of people on the trail in the whole hour I was on it.

[tctrek]

I will just say that I fractured my wrist riding too fast on a MUP. There weren't many people out, but I had no business riding 18 mph out there. It just took one person stepping out when I was threading the needle. I really learned my lesson.

[Biciclista]

maybe the next time a cyclist is killed by a car, we should rally the city for a reduced speed limit. Hey, you never know, it might work.

I'm glad the Cedar River trail isn't my main riding area. If it was, I might be down at city hall complaining, but not breaking the law.