Commuting by bike is against the Constitution

[OakLeaf]

But it's true that underlying most of this is a strong feeling that it is Americans' "God"-given right to take every resource from every country, live with the greatest perversity we can imagine, and destroy the earth for all of its denizens including ourselves.

Really, I hear it in nearly those words all the time. Maes is neither unique nor new.

[Tri Girl]

Maes is not protecting my liberties, because they are not being threatened. Agreeing to work together to change our resource-devouring ways does not cede American sovereignty. It's being responsible and creating solutions so that we can still have a planet on which to practice our American sovereignty.
His line of thinking is odd (at best) and at worst he's igniting fear in people that we're somehow going to lose all our freedom because we are in agreement with other cities/nations to reduce our carbon footprint and find sustainable alternatives. Insanity!

[PamNY]

The NY Times had something to say about Mr. Maes. The comments in this group are more incisive and funnier, though.

[Eden]

But it's true that underlying most of this is a strong feeling that it is Americans' "God"-given right to take every resource from every country, live with the greatest perversity we can imagine, and destroy the earth for all of its denizens including ourselves.

Really, I hear it in nearly those words all the time. Maes is neither unique nor new.

There is a sad and frightening reality about this... I was watching a documentary about evangelical families (Jesus Camp - it was interesting, definitely worth a watch) One of the families was teaching their children that god put everything on this earth specifically for them and that they did not need to concern themselves with conservation or being environmentally responsible because god would continue to provide for the people who believed. Environmentalism is just a left wing conspiracy to keep us down.... While yes, these people were more on the fringe, the thoughts are out there and even more mainstream people are susceptible....

[Desert Tortoise]

There is a sad and frightening reality about this... I was watching a documentary about evangelical families (Jesus Camp - it was interesting, definitely worth a watch) One of the families was teaching their children that god put everything on this earth specifically for them and that they did not need to concern themselves with conservation or being environmentally responsible because god would continue to provide for the people who believed. Environmentalism is just a left wing conspiracy to keep us down.... While yes, these people were more on the fringe, the thoughts are out there and even more mainstream people are susceptible....

If one can make this argument about extremist christians, couldn't the same argument be made about extremist environmentalist who burn down houses and SUVs?

[Eden]

If one can make this argument about extremist christians, couldn't the same argument be made about extremist environmentalist who burn down houses and SUVs?

What argument? that extremist environmentalists they think they have a god given right to use up resources?

I think you are looking for something that is not in my statement......

[Desert Tortoise]

Eden, not looking to argue. The last part of your statement about the thoughts out there and mainstream people are susceptible to them.

I may have misunderstood and sorry if I did. To me it sounded like the last part of what you said was that mainstream might fall for some of that belief about not worrying about our environment.

I'm just saying that would be as likely as mainstream falling for the extreme environmentalist arguments when they burn down things.

Each looses a lot credibility with such actions.

[Trek420]

Calm down, join hands, sing kumbaya, hand me the chocolate

There is extreme everything, some call us extreme because we ride whether everywhere or even at all. I think brevets are kinda extreme, you may think they are too short.

But speaking as a Jew, kinda a bagel with bacon and cream cheese Jew but also an old well middle aged tree hugger I am heartened to see a growing movement among Christians, even evangelicals towards awareness of climate change.

"Just a year ago, we found out from climate scientists that the melt in the Arctic had turned into a rout. It was happening so fast it was as if your hair turned gray overnight. Now, I have a receding hairline, but I don't have my hair turning gray overnight. Well, that's what happened with the environment. An area the size of Colorado was disappearing every week, and the Northwest Passage was staying wide open all September for the first time in history. And so, to look at this and not see what's happening, I think is, well, it was sort of the ignorance is strength idea. Well, not. It's not strength. Look, strength is knowing what's happening to the world around us, and moreover, as a Christian, we can't claim to love the Creator and abuse the world in which we live." ~ Rev. Richard Cizik, vice president for governmental affairs of the National Association of Evangelicals

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=97690760

*emphasis Trek's

[KnottedYet]

"My faith tells me to take care of God's creation; science tells me how." - Rev. Robert Lowry.

[Eden]

I agree that folks on the fringes do a disservice to more moderate people no matter what side of things they are acting for. Maybe its my bias, but I do honestly think there is a big difference between the situations.

Few people think that burning things down is a reasonable thing to do, no matter what the circumstances and just seeing someone do this as a radical act is unlikely to convert large numbers of people who are more mainstream thinkers. Not to mention that it is against the law and it takes a lot of conviction to intentionally break laws for your philosophies.

Rationalizing the use/overuse of resources (no matter what rationalization you use - it doesn't necessarily have to be religious - there are certainly folks who just think that they are better, smarter, whatever than people in 3rd world countries, so they just automatically deserve more) doesn't have to sound unreasonable, isn't against the law and does not have the immediate effect of hurting anyone. I think it is much more insidious and can creep into everyone's thinking much easier.

[Desert Tortoise]

But speaking as a Jew, kinda a bagel with bacon and cream cheese Jew but also an old well middle aged tree hugger


Trek, you're cute! I now have this visual of you with one arm around a tree, the other holding a bagel w/cream cheese and a big smile on your face

DT